Rugby - Advantage!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Losing I hope I will cope with. If we get stuffed – well then I’ll do a Tamerlin and return only when my blood pressure returns to normal.

WE HAVE NOT BEEN STUFFED...

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
They have bars on French trains. Very civilised.

The world have many things to learn about our great civilization.

... he'd be thinking Darjeeling.

I don't know this band, is this one of those awfully gluey English pop music bands?

OT Red Mist* Outbreak. Why didn't the bastard who invented Optical Mouses (or is that Mice?) also invent some sort of alarm that sounded before the batteries went dead? I'm sick and tired of the batteries dying unannounced and freezing the damn cursor in the middle of the screen!

* Copyright, J****

Buy a PC...

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Always pleased to see a bit of Asterix. French humour at it’s finest.

These comics have rythmed my youth.

Though the adventures of Asterix and Obelix are distributed in at least 39 countries I didn't knew they were so widely known...

Unfortunately, I would have liked to claim Asterix as a french creation but as far as I remember Uderzo and Goscinny are Belgian, though the famous Gallic village is located in modern Bretagne.

Plus do red wine and Kronenbourg constitute a bar – it’s a tough call.

Agreed!

Probably a combination of cost and the fact that it would never occur to a design engineer people might want that. I use optical mice (mouses?) with cables still (saves money on batteries).

Havak, do you have some Scottish ancestors?

But are you saying, and I find this hard to believe, that you prefer Civ 3? Or were simply admiring the concepts? Horse was right the execution was lacking. I think you will find the structure it imposes on your play very restricting given time. The patches did change it although I didn’t give it much of a go with the final patch for the initial release – I was far too brassed off with it by then. And the expansion packs are an expensive gamble for a game that managed to alienate one initially.

IMO, many concepts in Civ 3 are very good (though some have been ill implemented). My main concern is the lack of real armies, why have they kept this stupid combat system where you attack unit by unit.

IMO again, cuture is a good concept, so are bombing, outposts and the strategical resources...

What I really dislike in Civ3 is the behavior of the AI and the rude way it is cheating. The AI civs are producing scores of settlers and military units without the penalty associated with the maintenance cost of a huge army, the settlers walk through the map to colonize the areas where will appear a modern era strategical resource... a few millenia later.

The palm of the most stupid implementation of a concept goes to "movement in ennemy territory". The concept is simple, when you move a unit in an unknow or hostile territory, your units are limited to a 1 tile movement (not very realistic either as scouts are supposed to "open the road"). Suppose you are at war with another civ and that you are allied with another civ which units have to cross your territory, which we consider as rather big, to wage war against the common ennemy. Your ally will move units in your territory... tile by tile, without the benefit of the roads or the railroads. 30 or 50 turns later, your ally have not yet reached the front, you are growing tired of this war and ask for peace with the AI Civ that you have so badly injured they are reduced to a few unimportant cities. Your ennemy accepts peace but your ally considers you have betrayed him and attack you the turn after with the myriads of (mostly) outdated units that are currently in the middle of your territory... isn't it stupid?

Actually, the AI Civs have been programmed to use all the tricks the veteran players of Civ2 have used to crush the AI in the previous editions of the game... tricks I am not using and that I am not really interested in using. The AI is hard to beat not because it is "intelligent" but because it is heavily cheating and exploiting the gaps in the game system.

It's like a NH team playing against a SH team, you don't know the laws that will be enforced on the field and thus can not build an efficient strategy...

BTW Finbar, there is a Mod called Civ3 like Civ2 that you could find funny to test... and update your civ3 to 1.29f.

[Tamerlin]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Alexander's Horse

Concept is fine, execution left something to be desired - but I never bothered to patch my version. I'm going to give it another burl when the expansion pack comes down in price.

I think this game is much more interesting when it is played as a MP game... the 1.21f and 1.29f patches are correcting many bugs and issues.

[Havak]

WE HAVE NOT BEEN STUFFED...

It was a conditional parameter applied to England’s possible outcome followed by a statement of intended action following that outcome – I didn’t mean the two to be directly associated as meaning Toulouse got stuffed. Honest.

The world have many things to learn about our great civilization.

You can take our live but you’ll never take our…red wine?

I don't know this band, is this one of those awfully gluey English pop music bands?

Buy a PC...

Brave man to once again yank the chain of a Mac devotee.

but as far as I remember Uderzo and Goscinny are Belgian

I honestly did not know that – apologies.

Havak, do you have some Scottish ancestors?

Don’t tell anyone but on my maternal side there is both a little Scottish and also a little French blood (and sadly some truly loopy east anglian blood too). Of course my paternal side is English all the way Mind you under Kiwi rules I probably qualify to play for both Scotland and France - it was only four or five generations ago after all.

The AI is hard to beat not because it is "intelligent" but because it is heavily cheating and exploiting the gaps in the game system.

And there’s the key Tamerlin. They removed the ‘fun’ and made a game only to challenge the uber-players. A wasted opportunity – but consummate proof who the real talent as Firaxis was as his absence shines through Civ 3.

It's like a NH team playing against a SH team, you don't know the laws that will be enforced on the field and thus can not build an efficient strategy...

To draw on the sarcasm inspiration from our friend Finbar earlier in the week I have to say it is a real shame the SH get treated so distrustingly by us NH fans. Of course they don’t cheat endemically, that is just us being unfair to them. They really know what is best for the future of rugby and if that is no more competition for ball then we should support them to the hilt in changing things.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
I will do – though I can’t find any fixtures for them before the World Cup?

They'll be playing someone somewhere. You probably won't see them before the WRC, though.

Whereas you would be thinking of all the points you make that I recycle to you a month later?

And not a royalty charged.

I think I’m still going to go Wallabies-NZ-England-France in that order regardless of the next couple of games. The venue remains crucial to me.

The four are a safe bet. I'm not sure about the order.

But are you saying, and I find this hard to believe, that you prefer Civ 3? Or were simply admiring the concepts? Horse was right the execution was lacking. I think you will find the structure it imposes on your play very restricting given time. The patches did change it although I didn’t give it much of a go with the final patch for the initial release – I was far too brassed off with it by then. And the expansion packs are an expensive gamble for a game that managed to alienate one initially.

No, I was just admiring the concepts. I've only fiddled around playing Civ 3. The concepts of Civ 3 and demands on the player - I mean choices and options rather than playability - are much more, um, cerebral than Civ 2. Civ 2, for anyone with half a brain, is, ultimately, I think, fairly simplistic. While still a fine piece of technical and intellectual creativity. So it's enjoyable and playable and a fine creation - which explains its success and its longevity.

I obviously haven't yet run into any of the playability problems that Civ 3 poses. I've heard all about them. It seems to me a bit of a tragedy because the complexity of the concepts was a great start. As you suggest elsewhere, it probably does reveal who really did what originally.

Try RoN – an RTS sure but it was designed by a team that understood a game should be accessible to newbies, allow variety of strategy and above all be FUN. Is it available for Mac?

I keep hearing about RoN but I've never checked it out. I've never strayed from Civ 2 before this.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
I don't know this band, is this one of those awfully gluey English pop music bands?

As you well know, Tamerlin, I'm of the firm belief that not a note of decent music was written after 1969, so I have absolutely no knowledge of gluey English pop music bands whatever they might be.

Buy a PC...

The batteries would still run out.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin

Though the adventures of Asterix and Obelix are distributed in at least 39 countries I didn't knew they were so widely known...

They've appeared in our papers for eons.

What I really dislike in Civ3 is the behavior of the AI and the rude way it is cheating.

The AI cheats outrageously in Civ 2.

The AI civs are producing scores of settlers and military units without the penalty associated with the maintenance cost of a huge army

How many times have you taken an AI city in Civ 2 to discover the city has - when in your hands - a massively negative shield count?

The AI is hard to beat not because it is "intelligent" but because it is heavily cheating and exploiting the gaps in the game system.

See above. And above that too.

It's like a NH team playing against a SH team, you don't know the laws that will be enforced on the field and thus can not build an efficient strategy...

Now you're just being ... French!

BTW Finbar, there is a Mod called Civ3 like Civ2 that you could find funny to test... and update your civ3 to 1.29f.

I'll check out the mod. And I did the update to 1.29f today. Haven't had a chance to try it out yet.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak


Well anything is possible of course. But to be honest I expect it to be a fairly small margin whatever way it goes.

Yep

Always pleased to see a bit of Asterix. French humour at it’s finest.

I thought it was French too until Tamerlin corrected us.

Not good! Why on earth on they not showing it?

They may not have the rights to show it live. I'm grateful to be able to watch it at all - last time I had to pay $20 at the door to watch it at the pub.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
To draw on the sarcasm inspiration from our friend Finbar earlier in the week I have to say it is a real shame the SH get treated so distrustingly by us NH fans. Of course they don’t cheat endemically, that is just us being unfair to them. They really know what is best for the future of rugby and if that is no more competition for ball then we should support them to the hilt in changing things.

Doesn't work nearly so well when you deliver it to a third party. Much better delivered to the relevant party. Remember?

And now I'm off to bed. I've got a huge amount of food prep to do tomorrow if I'm going to get to watch England -v- ABs uninterrupted.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Tamerlin




These comics have rythmed my youth.

Though the adventures of Asterix and Obelix are distributed in at least 39 countries I didn't knew they were so widely known...

Unfortunately, I would have liked to claim Asterix as a french creation but as far as I remember Uderzo and Goscinny are Belgian, though the famous Gallic village is located in modern Bretagne.

I used to love going to the library to check out the Asterix and Tintin books! They were very popular in New Zealand.

[Havak]

They'll be playing someone somewhere. You probably won't see them before the WRC, though.

We get fairly good coverage of the big teams but the minnows only crop up when those big guys play them. Ireland are playing Tonga I see – I can seem them losing that.

And not a royalty charged.

Your public service is much appreciated.

So it's enjoyable and playable and a fine creation - which explains its success and its longevity.

And also why repeating it has proved so hard in a way? Can lightning strike twice? Only if you are France facing the Pumas.

I keep hearing about RoN but I've never checked it out. I've never strayed from Civ 2 before this.

Give it a ‘burl’ as your countrymen would say – I’ve been quite pleased with it myself.

The batteries would still run out.

Logic at this time of the morning? Are you tea total Finbar?

See above. And above that too.

All fair points – but give Civ 3 a stab, say on one level below your Civ 2 favourite (Deity) and see how quickly the AI hands you your ass. They really did make it a very good cheat indeed in some ways.

Now you're just being ... French!

Easy going and full of flair? Relaxed and unhurried? Or
stubborn in his viewpoints?

They may not have the rights to show it live. I'm grateful to be able to watch it at all - last time I had to pay $20 at the door to watch it at the pub.

I thought Fox was Murdoch’s big happy global family? I’m sure we get so much S12 and tri-nations in this way because Fox have the live rights. Still I guess it might be sold on to a niche PPV in the US?

Doesn't work nearly so well when you deliver it to a third party. Much better delivered to the relevant party. Remember?

Quite. I chose the third party route deliberately for comic effect of course…

And now I'm off to bed. I've got a huge amount of food prep to do tomorrow if I'm going to get to watch England -v- ABs uninterrupted.

And here’s to a great four hours of concentrated rugby – that’s how every Saturday should be.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
As you well know, Tamerlin, I'm of the firm belief that not a note of decent music was written after 1969, so I have absolutely no knowledge of gluey English pop music bands whatever they might be.

You know I disagree a bit about the 1969 deadline though I must admit the music I usually listen would easily qualify as "brute" to an educated hear.

About the English pop music bands I would write that not knowing them is a kind of boon.

The batteries would still run out.

Yes but you are deprived of the pleasure to spend a full afternoon or a night twicking your computer or/and its OS to solve an interesting problem.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
They've appeared in our papers for eons.

The AI cheats outrageously in Civ 2.

I know but I expect it to be more refined (which is more or less the case in Civ2), what I don't like in Civ3 is not the fact the AI is cheating but the way it cheats to the point it is direspectfull of the player's intelligence.

How many times have you taken an AI city in Civ 2 to discover the city has - when in your hands - a massively negative shield count?

Once again I agree with you but it is more or less transparent in the game.

One of the worst cheat I have seen was in the last game I played (it was last year and I uninstalled the game quickly after):

I was at war against the evil Roman and 3 of my cities were near the front, a Roman stack was near these cities and one was lightly defended. The Roman units attacked the lightly defended one. Was I out of luck or was it a cheat? I had a save from the previous turn. I loaded it, reinforced the city previously attacked by units from one the other cities which then became undefended. Guess what? The Roman units attacked the newly lightly garrisoned city. In order to be sure, I loaded the previous saved game again and reinforced the two other cities from a third one which then became undergarrisoned. The Roman units attacked the third city...

1 - Though there were close to my cities the roman units were too far away to spot the movements between these cities as my roads were beyond their spotting range.

2 - None of the civs (including mine) had yet discovered the advance that is the prerequisite for spies.

Conclusion: the AI knows at least the number of units in a city and uses the information to build its "strategy". As far as I know I am not interested in playing against an AI that ignores the most basic rules.

Now you're just being ... French!

I'll check out the mod. And I did the update to 1.29f today. Haven't had a chance to try it out yet.

The mod called The Balancer seems rather interesting.

[LDiCesare]

as far as I remember Uderzo and Goscinny are Belgian

NO!
Goscinny is French (born in Paris from Jewish Pole parents as far as I recall - do a google search for Goscinny for details). I don't really care about Uderzo, who is an OK drawer, but Goscinny is the best comics scenarist and dialoguist ever. He also wrote some very good books (Le Petit Nicolas). Probably the most important figure in French and Belgian comics world (there's also Franquin).
And don't get me started on comics...