Rugby - Advantage!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia


Mexted I think it is.

From what I have seen Rokocoko should be up to the task

I hope so, for his sake. He's a very exciting player. But it's a big step from S12 to Test rugby, particularly in the area of defence. The Blues' style doesn't call on his defence. We'll see. Nonu and Umaga will be devastating with an inch of a gap.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar
I hope so, for his sake. He's a very exciting player. But it's a big step from S12 to Test rugby, particularly in the area of defence. The Blues' style doesn't call on his defence.

He hasn't been tested much, I agree, but I do remember one or two occasions in which he handled himself well. I remember because I was suprised by his competence in this area (considering flashy wingers usually aren't).

[finbar]

I notice Stu Dickinson is now reffing England -v- ABs. It could have been worse. It was to be the erratic, baffling Peter Marshall until he buggered his leg reffing in the club comp last weekend.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar
I notice Stu Dickinson is now reffing England -v- ABs. It could have been worse. It was to be the erratic, baffling Peter Marshall until he buggered his leg reffing in the club comp last weekend.

Where's Stu from? I don't remember him off the top of my head...what was the last major game he reffed?

[Havak]

I think the weather probably worked against the Maori too. The game was knock-ons galore for both sides, so very little fancy passing bore any fruit.

Strange that you talk about it in terms of it hampering the Maoris and give no credit to a side that coped with the conditions better. Nicely illustrates the point about England not getting an inch don’t you think?

"They've got a line-up out wide - trouble is they're all fatties!"

Not funny actually – just plain rude. When it is p****** it down it makes no sense to throw the ball wide – you use your forwards to keep hold of it and drive the opposition back. That the commentator did not like the fact that England were better at that is his problem not ours surely?

It's a strange one this - it's very legitimate to win a game through forward superiority but just doesn't seem to be popular with SH types. Any connection to the fact that NH teams are stronger in that area? Of course not!

So J****, unless backed up by the pick of 4 rugby countries, had no more or less success than The Sainted One.

Um yes he has – because he has the series win there whereas Ealesy two games were only in one off fixtures. Not to mention their creative use of ‘partisan’ video officials to salvage one of the June 2000 tests. And did Ealesy down their colours whilst they were world champs? Emphatically not. In fact just one month after Jonno beat them in that series Ealesy got handed his biggest mauling as a Wallaby player by them if I recall? I’ll not quote the score here.

Your home record against them is quite good of course – but ours is better.

Um, I think they are.

Well to be fair you have been very consistent in how highly you rate them. It was elements of their media claiming the Maoris were all the form S12 players and could hand England their tails. The big question for me is are the ABs as good as you think they are when facing a team as good as I think England are?

Zinzan believes Jack and the other lock can target Thompsons throwing – but also points out the hooker picked for the ABs could not hit a barn door in the S12 season just gone. He thinks the line outs will be very open.

I'll read it in a minute. But here you go again seeking solace in the rantings of lunatics.

I did say he came from a minority viewpoint. But it is a disturbing one – that hard core of Kiwis who seem to think they have some divine right to forever be the best team on the planet and that whenever they lose it is some devious conspiracy of the weather or cheating opponents rather than simply being outplayed on the day.

The real tests (so to speak) are yet to come.

Yes Ireland were poor. Without BOD their back line looks bereft of ideas and the Murphy at 13 experiment failed. Their forwards disappointed me more – very lacklustre with the exception of the prodigal son Gleeson. At leats he worked hard.

Well I hope for all our sakes that we make a better fist of it – although I can’t see Wales being a challenge. Hopefully we can give you the Test you are after.

Again, why bother about lunatics?

It’s hard to get away from Glaws fans sometimes.

I wonder about the average age of your pack on hard grounds, though. The ball has to reach the backs, y'see.

Don’t worry about the pack – they are not the ones facing the big test in that area. Our weak point remains the centres – particularly Tindall who is workmanlike at best. If only Ollie Smith were fit…

Careful, you're succumbing to J. Lindsay Syndrome.

I was attempting to use extremely sarcastic humour – didn’t quite pull it off.

Care to double up on the 50 Civ Gold that the ABs will take the WRC?

Is my marker good? I’m sure I don’t have the funds otherwise?

I agree the ABs are right up there – but what they lack is a strong captain on the field. In fact has Mitchell picked the same chap six months running since taking the helm?

I also refuse to write the Wallabies off at home. Woodward considers them favourites and I think I agree.

That's what I meant. :nodding agreement:

Being England coach is a poisons chalice in most sports. S***** is worst of all but Rugger is not far behind.

Look at the cricket side – they just blew Zimbabwe away in three days for the second time in a fortnight and what did the press say? “When are you going to do it to Austrlalia Nasser?”. You can’t win for trying with them.

It could be Baked Beans on Toast.

I’m sure they will understand? It’s 8am and 10am for me so I guess that takes care of Saturday morning?

I recall remarking on the younger players in the team that beat us over there in the Tri-Nations last season. They did show some imagination and initiative. I'm not sure where they've gone.

He’s still got them in the squad hasn’t he? Guys like Conradie and Russell? I suspect he has coached the smart heads up rugby out of them. One starts to realise why the Welsh were happy to see him leave their club scene.

And if they're not on song, they might get a fright. The Pumas can be very dangerous at home.

With apologies to the French lads their team has the worrying tendency when a game is not ‘serious’ (and sometimes when it is sadly) not to put in the work rate needed. So laid back that sometimes you expect them to stop dead and light up an unfiltered cigarette.

OTOH, just as Elton Flatley did, he will make Jason Robinson look and feel like a milko's horse.

Except Robbo is no longer last man standing and the lad that is is a very relaxed runner indeed.

I gather Australian Customs will be on the lookout for phials of Botulism in the Boks' RWC luggage.

Aussie customs – an Aussie sense of humour coupled with the legal power to cavity search. They are truly scary people!

I totally missed Caligastia’s latest reference to the great poisoning scandal of 95. Now then what was I saying above about ‘devious conmspiracies’?

And, when you think about it, it's probably only to be expected from idiots with nothing better to do than occupy the idle time between medications by prattling endlessly about rugby on the internet.

As the man says – but too good actually. What is the point in trying to come back to that gem?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia


Where's Stu from? I don't remember him off the top of my head...what was the last major game he reffed?

He's Australian. Reffed Tests. Has Havak poured sh*t on him? Is the Pope a shaky old Pole?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Strange that you talk about it in terms of it hampering the Maoris and give no credit to a side that coped with the conditions better. Nicely illustrates the point about England not getting an inch don’t you think?

I think it illustrates it superbly, and I couldn't agree with you more. The SH's treatment of England rugby is utterly, utterly shameful.

Not funny actually – just plain rude.

Turn it up. Rude and funny.

It's a strange one this - it's very legitimate to win a game through forward superiority but just doesn't seem to be popular with SH types.

I reiterate - the SH's treatment of England rugby is utterly, utterly shameful.

Um yes he has – because he has the series win there whereas Ealesy two games were only in one off fixtures.

A win is a win is a win. Gertrude Stein rears her ugly - and she was - head again.

Zinzan believes Jack and the other lock can target Thompsons throwing – but also points out the hooker picked for the ABs could not hit a barn door in the S12 season just gone. He thinks the line outs will be very open.

Put it this way - if you can shut down their backs, you've got a perfectly good chance. If you can't, you're in deep trouble. And the key will be how much space and time Carlos gets. Oh, and I'm sure England has watched all the videos, but Carlos has developed a reverse kick very much like Australian L***** player Andrew Johns'. In fact, I'd swear Andrew Johns has given him lessons. The ABs will use it in set plays and it's just about impossible to counter with those speedsters outside him.

Don’t worry about the pack – they are not the ones facing the big test in that area. Our weak point remains the centres – particularly Tindall who is workmanlike at best. If only Ollie Smith were fit…

Well, they're pretty strong in that area. I don't know Nonu will go in his debut - he's like a pocket-sized Umaga - but Umaga finished the S12 in great form. How I love watching him play.

I was attempting to use extremely sarcastic humour – didn’t quite pull it off.

No, but practice does make, um, something.

Is my marker good? I’m sure I don’t have the funds otherwise?

I think you do actually. I'll have a look. But your marker is good, regardless. You are, after all, an Englishman. And, what's more, I can only reiterate that it's utterly utterly shameful how your rugby is treated in the SH.

I agree the ABs are right up there – but what they lack is a strong captain on the field. In fact has Mitchell picked the same chap six months running since taking the helm?

Injury aside, I think he has.

I also refuse to write the Wallabies off at home. Woodward considers them favourites and I think I agree.

I'll wait and see how the new and new-ish faces handle the real pressure over the next couple of months.

Being England coach is a poisons chalice in most sports. S***** is worst of all but Rugger is not far behind.

Look at the cricket side – they just blew Zimbabwe away in three days for the second time in a fortnight and what did the press say? “When are you going to do it to Austrlalia Nasser?”. You can’t win for trying with them.

I think they were right. Everything's relative. England rolled South Africa, Pakistan and someone else immediately before the last Ashes Tour. Look what happened out here. Zimbabwe are, unfortunately, hopeless. We have two tests coming up against Bangladesh. Meaningless in terms of measuring where one stands on the world stage. As was your Zimbabwe series.

I’m sure they will understand? It’s 8am and 10am for me so I guess that takes care of Saturday morning?

I'm sure they wouldn't understand. One is a Pom, Professor of Psychology at Sydney Uni, with absolutely no interest in rugby. Or cricket, for that matter. I'll watch England -v- ABs while I'm getting things ready and have to tape the Wales match.

He’s still got them in the squad hasn’t he? Guys like Conradie and Russell? I suspect he has coached the smart heads up rugby out of them.

Russell was one, I recall. Like greased lightning. He didn't have a clue what he was going to do next, so his teammates had even less of a clue. But he was damn hard to pin down. I must check the squad to see if he's still there.

With apologies to the French lads their team has the worrying tendency when a game is not ‘serious’ (and sometimes when it is sadly) not to put in the work rate needed. So laid back that sometimes you expect them to stop dead and light up an unfiltered cigarette.

Speaking of which, where on earth is Tamerlin? If he couldn't afford to go to Dublin, he sure as hell couldn't afford South America. Unless he's stowed away. If we hear out-of-tune Maurice Chevalier from overhead, we'll know he's tucked himself away in the wheel-housing of a jumbo.

Except Robbo is no longer last man standing and the lad that is is a very relaxed runner indeed.

Mmmm. Well, he's going to have Doug Howlett and someone even quicker to contend with. As I said in an earlier post, though, we'll see whether Rokocoko can do more than run like the blessed wind. Big test for him.

[Havak]

Has Havak poured sh*t on him? Is the Pope a shaky old Pole?

Do they call Vatican nationals Poles?

Stu is not as bad as the injured Aussie he replaces.

The SH's treatment of England rugby is utterly, utterly shameful.

Superb stuff. A true masterclass in the effective use of sarcastic humour.

As an added bonus there is the irony of the subject matter for the sarcasm also being 'true' to the intended audience of said sarcasm. You are indeed a talented writer.

Turn it up. Rude and funny.

Observational humour has to have some connection with the truth – this didn’t. Therefore simply Rude.

A win is a win is a win. Gertrude Stein rears her ugly - and she was - head again.

It’s a flawed reference though isn’t it? A World cup final win is worth more than beating Ireland in June for example?

The ABs will use it in set plays and it's just about impossible to counter with those speedsters outside him.

Very much depends on whether the ref keeps the speedsters legal surely? My expectation is that he won’t and that fast, offside backs will cause us huge problems. Not sure how to counter that easily to be honest. If he augments that expected deficiency with also over policing the competition in the scrum and line outs as most SH refs do then we could struggle. Frankly we should have insisted on an NH ref don’t you think?

Spencer is a real threat – only an idiot would deny that – but I still don’t think he has the consistent quality decision making of a Wilko, and he isn’t the same presence in a defensive line that’s for sure?

Umaga finished the S12 in great form. How I love watching him play.

As do I. He’s a great player. And I won’t even make a rude observational joke about his girlie hair.

You are, after all, an Englishman.

Very good.

Of course that stereotypical fallacy was based on the two classes of Englishmen least deserving of the accolade – upper and middle class Englishmen were never and are not now trustworthy. I of course am from a working class origin so it is far more true of myself.

I think they were right. Everything's relative.

Right they may have been – but the way they concentrate on the negative is markedly different to their Aussie counterparts.

I must check the squad to see if he's still there.

They threw him to our Wolves late on in the November game. I don’t recall if he played the Scots though.

where on earth is Tamerlin?

I have been wondering. Locking up his mum’s recipe books?

he's going to have Doug Howlett and someone even quicker to contend with

Big test for Lewsey as well then. He’s been one of the driving forces behind Wasps blindsiding Glaws for the title so he is on form.

All in all I’m really looking forward to Saturday!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


Do they call Vatican nationals Poles?

You can take the chappie out of Poland, you can't take Poland out of the chappie.

Superb stuff. A true masterclass in the effective use of sarcastic humour.

The key is that it has to be apparently utterly sincere. Straight-faced, so to speak. It's actually the basis of a lot of Australian humour - the straight-faced, p*ss-taking leg-pull.

Observational humour has to have some connection with the truth – this didn’t. Therefore simply Rude.

Sorry, I disagree. The basis of observational humour is hyperbole - in this case, exaggeration. Otherwise it's not humour but just the truth.

It’s a flawed reference though isn’t it? A World cup final win is worth more than beating Ireland in June for example?

No, a win is a win is a win - gee, I hope I don't have to pay royalties to Gertrude's estate - when we're talking about winning in South Africa. Which is what we were doing. If we'd been comparing a WRC win with a win over an undermanned, out-of-form Ireland, obviously a WRC win means more. You've been watching too much of the England centres - your step needs work.

Very much depends on whether the ref keeps the speedsters legal surely?

Well, yes. But I watched the Blues do it in S12 and it was always legal. They practise it and the fliers were always legal. They don't have any reason not to be. The key to it, obviously, is that the oppo man marking the Blues winger (or full back, it will be either Rokocoko or Howlett) is taken completely unawares. The play is half the width of the paddock away and going in a different direction. Suddenly, and the flier knows when, it's not. By the time the marker has reacted, it's too late. Those fliers only need a split second.

Spencer is a real threat – only an idiot would deny that – but I still don’t think he has the consistent quality decision making of a Wilko, and he isn’t the same presence in a defensive line that’s for sure?

He's having a purple patch. He's had them before, this one has run a whole lot longer. I think, apart from obviously having worked very hard, he now finds himself - with the Blues - part of a sympatico package. He and the Blues are on the same wavelength, which helps enormously. Now it's a matter of taking it up a notch to Test level. He's got enough Blues around him - and a couple of fairly handy non-Blues, to boot. Even he wouldn't deny that he's been found wanting under Test pressure before, but he's stepping up this time from the best possible platform. All that said, I wouldn't compare him with anyone - at Test level - at the moment. Because he's yet to do it at Test level. I hope it works for him because rugby needs his sort of panache - as annoyingly smug as he can be to opposing supporters.

As do I. He’s a great player. And I won’t even make a rude observational joke about his girlie hair.

Certainly not to his face. (See my earlier note about observational humour)

Of course that stereotypical fallacy was based on the two classes of Englishmen least deserving of the accolade – upper and middle class Englishmen were never and are not now trustworthy. I of course am from a working class origin so it is far more true of myself.

Yes, I knew your working-class origins when I said your marker was good. The upper- and middle-class would welch on me, I know you'd rob a bank to repay me.

Right they may have been – but the way they concentrate on the negative is markedly different to their Aussie counterparts.

Yes, and that's always been the case. Quick to laud, quicker to pillory. You're a weird mob. To rip off a famous local book title.

I have been wondering. Locking up his mum’s recipe books?

He gave me half the recipe. Maybe his Mum necked him for it.

All in all I’m really looking forward to Saturday!

Mmmm. A pint of bitter, a crumpet and Marmite, and rugby for breakfast. Think of me slaving over a hot Ilve - that's an Italian stainless steel stove - for six people, one of them a Pom who couldn't give a flying fig about rugby.

[Havak]

Well I hope he has redeeming qualities as that is quite a sin you describe there.

I'll pick up some of the other points tomorrow but I thought you might like to see this that I found from an interview with Todd Blackadder.

"I've just got back from a few weeks in New Zealand, and for me, I'm not sure about the management, but the media over there really haven't done their homework on England," said the man who won 12 caps for his country, the last coming against Italy in November 2000.

"There seems to be an arrogance creeping into New Zealand rugby, but I can see both sides of the coin having been in Britain for the last couple of years. This England team is a bloody good one.

"Their club competition is extremely tough. Look at a bloke like Martin Johnson - the guy hasn't had a day off for years, and he still produces top rugby every week. They're extremely professional, and they will have done all their research. Mentally they're a hard squad."

Interesting isn't it Finbar - though I'm sure he lost you when he praised Jonno?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Interesting isn't it Finbar - though I'm sure he lost you when he praised Jonno?

Well, taking into account his bitterness over his sacking from both the captaincy and the ABs team - in one fell swoop - I think I might prefer a more objective opinion.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
Mmmmm. Interesting choice. Make your life misery, or get the second half of a recipe? Let me think about it ...

This is indeed a very interesting choice, being naughty (often very pleasing I must admit) or obeying your stomach (I think this is your soft point )...

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
So he's going to have to settle for retiring after possibly defending the Grand Slam? I might just have to get onto the England Six Nations bandwagon next season.

You are welcomed.

We haven't heard from Tamerlin for a while. Presumably he's lost somewhere in the Pampas.

Digesting the final...

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
We shall see, we shall see. Care to double up on the 50 Civ Gold that the ABs will take the WRC?

You are all wrong, France will win the RWC...

I've got a bit of a problem this Saturday. England -v- ABs at 5pm, followed by Wallabies -v- Wales at 7pm. And I've got six people coming for dinner. It could be Baked Beans on Toast.

If you were kind you could prepare them a Cassoulet cooked the day before (it's even better).

And if they're not on song, they might get a fright. The Pumas can be very dangerous at home.

Lightning never strikes twice at the same spot...

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


This is indeed a very interesting choice, being naughty (often very pleasing I must admit) or obeying your stomach (I think this is your soft point )...

I am, as we say, truly on the horns of a dilemma!