Rugby - Advantage!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


You are welcomed.

Careful. I might climb onto la grenouille bandwagon.

Digesting the final...

A tad of indigestion, huh?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin

You are all wrong, France will win the RWC...

Not with me on their bandwagon.

If you were kind you could prepare them a Cassoulet cooked the day before (it's even better).

Yes, there are many dishes that taste even better a day later. Minestrone is one, Ribollita another. In fact, any dish combining myriad ingredients and their juices that continue to combine and mature after they're first prepared. Actually, I could have done a Cassoulet but for two things - it's too late to prepare a proper confit, and Mrs finbar is a vegetarian, meaning I couldn't use any meat, meaning it wouldn't be a real Cassoulet.

Lightning never strikes twice at the same spot...

They don't call les grenouilles bleues the Walking Lightning Rods for nothing, you know.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
Careful. I might climb onto la grenouille bandwagon.

There should be a :wary: or :worried smily...

A tad of indigestion, huh?

The piece was really hard to swallow... this is a big indigestion.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


There should be a :wary: or :worried smily...

Or, possibly, an "Oh no! Anything but that! For goodness sake, someone take to him with a blunt instrument!" smilie.

The piece was really hard to swallow... this is a big indigestion.

"Nurse! Quickly! The Heimlich Manoeuvre!"

[Havak]

You can take the chappie out of Poland, you can't take Poland out of the chappie.

Hasn’t he only been back once since they became ‘democratic’? ;-)

Did you notice that the Poles voted over whelmingly to take all the UKs hard earned money earlier in the week. Sorry, I mean join the EC (or Franco-German Empire as I am increasingly sure it should now be called).

Interestingly Blair and Brown are playing a poor hand on the Euro at the moment. This nonsense of not meeting the five criteria (thought up by Gordon at a dinner party one night) isn’t being bought even by the most devout Blairite. They need to bite the bullet and either deliver the referendum the manifesto promised or do a Thatcher and say “We know best, we are going in chaps. Tally HO!”. The former might be embarassing to them – the latter is electoral suicide.

It's actually the basis of a lot of Australian humour - the straight-faced, p*ss-taking leg-pull

Which is shame because only a handful of your countrymen can actually pull it off. Probably the same percentage as those of mine who can. The trouble is every single ‘cobber’ thinks he is a master of the art.

Sorry, I disagree. The basis of observational humour is hyperbole - in this case, exaggeration.

You are welcome to disagree. You proved my point anyway as ‘exaggeration’is a connection with the truth (there must be something there you are exaggerating?). What this commentator said was surreal and possessed no such link. Therefore simply uneducated rudeness. How unusual for a TV pundit?

No, a win is a win is a win - gee, I hope I don't have to pay royalties to Gertrude's estate - when we're talking about winning in South Africa. Which is what we were doing

You didn’t indicate the focus was purely being kept to the South African example.
It still isn’t true anyway because the importance of a win is relative to the perspective of the observer. A win is not a win is not a win. For example a Wallaby win over England almost certainly would not mean the same as an England win over the Wallabies Saturday week – to ME. Will you allow me that small concession to your otherwise reasonable point?

But I watched the Blues do it in S12 and it was always legal. They practise it and the fliers were always legal. They don't have any reason not to be.

Well I didn’t see enough Blues to argue with you on that. The concept of such an honest back line at test level though is not something I’ll easily accept. We are talking the All Blacks here – they push the envelope with the best of them. I’ll be watching this kicking ploy carefully to pass my verdict.

Now it's a matter of taking it up a notch to Test level. He's got enough Blues around him - and a couple of fairly handy non-Blues, to boot. Even he wouldn't deny that he's been found wanting under Test pressure before, but he's stepping up this time from the best possible platform.

Isn’t it right though that nobody in S12 – even the much vaunted Canterbury pack – put the Blues forwards on the back foot. Very easy for Carlos to shine when not under pressure? His pack should be under much more pressure Saturday. One big difference with Wilko there is that at club level the Falcons forwards are frequently outplayed and Johnny has to learn how to play under that constraint. We shall see.

Certainly not to his face. (See my earlier note about observational humour)

I wouldn’t – but only because I’m not by nature a rude person. Physically he doesn’t worry me at all – I’ve be threatened by far more dangerous men in my time I can assure you.

I know you'd rob a bank to repay me.

Absolutely. And not any old bank. I’d make sure it was an exclusive bank so only ‘exclusive’ people suffered.

You're a weird mob. To rip off a famous local book title.

The press to be honest seem to be a separate ethnic minority.

A pint of bitter, a crumpet and Marmite, and rugby for breakfast

Apart from the Marmite that’s probably spot on.

Good luck with the Ilve marathon.

*shakes head* A Pom who doesn’t like rugby or cricket?

Well, taking into account his bitterness over his sacking from both the captaincy and the ABs team - in one fell swoop - I think I might prefer a more objective opinion.

He is a Kiwi playing in Scotland. He has no need to be nice to the English in any way. His opinion is as objective as I think we are likely to get from an exile here.

I think he has long since reconciled himself to the fact that Jack pushed him out at club and International level. Here is the thing for me - that wouldn’t seem to be too hard as Todd would never have got close to any England side at any level in the last decade – a very average lock hence his languishing in Scottish club rugby. Jack is the unknown quantity – I’ll make my own mind up on him Saturday. Young, dynamic, athletic – he seems to have received every accolade – but he has never faced the test he will Saturday.

I have to say I found the fact his views coincided with my impressions after all the nonsense around the Maori game – there is a danger certain elements in NZ are becoming arrogant and seem to think they have already lifted the World Cup. It will bite them in the a** if they let that attitude show against the Wallabies or us. I’m sure it’s a slim minority?

You are all wrong, France will win the RWC...

Has anyone told the Kiwi press?

They don't call les grenouilles bleues the Walking Lightning Rods for nothing, you know.

You have found a very rich vein of form this week Finbar. Warming up for your dinner party?

For myself – I have a feeling France are ready for a big game for this one.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


Hasn’t he only been back once since they became ‘democratic’? ;-)

If I were him, I wouldn't set foot outside Italy either. Where else on earth could anyone possibly want to go? Then again, I'm unlikely to be elected Pope. Though Pope finbar does have a ring about it. Heavens knows what colour smoke would come up the chimney.

Did you notice that the Poles voted over whelmingly to take all the UKs hard earned money earlier in the week. Sorry, I mean join the EC (or Franco-German Empire as I am increasingly sure it should now be called).

I keep hearing about someone or other voting to join - or not - as the case may be. Didn't the Vikings vote against it recently? I've lost all track. And I still think - while acknowledging that I know absolutely nothing about it, but when has that stopped me before? - that it all sounds and feels like homogenisation.

Interestingly Blair and Brown are playing a poor hand on the Euro at the moment. This nonsense of not meeting the five criteria (thought up by Gordon at a dinner party one night) isn’t being bought even by the most devout Blairite. They need to bite the bullet and either deliver the referendum the manifesto promised or do a Thatcher and say “We know best, we are going in chaps. Tally HO!”. The former might be embarassing to them – the latter is electoral suicide.

I'd be very surprised if your lot ever committed to a situation in which a bunch of soil tillers not long out of the Middle Ages - by which I mean D. Rumsfeld's New Europe - could outvote you (in the collective sense) on matters affecting you and your future.

Which is shame because only a handful of your countrymen can actually pull it off.

You might be surprised. There are a lot of absolutely genuine naturals. You might have run into some of the would-bes.

You are welcome to disagree. You proved my point anyway as ‘exaggeration’is a connection with the truth (there must be something there you are exaggerating?). What this commentator said was surreal and possessed no such link. Therefore simply uneducated rudeness. How unusual for a TV pundit?

Obviously I'm going to have to have a look at these Rugger Tubbies on Saturday. If I see an ounce of body fat, I win the argument.

A win is not a win is not a win.

Good grief! You've just put Gretrude Stein-philes out of business! Or, indeed, perhaps you've just started your own collection of Quotable Quotes. Just imagine, decades from now, Havak being quoted and paraphrased.

Well I didn’t see enough Blues to argue with you on that. The concept of such an honest back line at test level though is not something I’ll easily accept. We are talking the All Blacks here – they push the envelope with the best of them. I’ll be watching this kicking ploy carefully to pass my verdict.

I would expect nothing less.

*Havak sets up his compass, protractor, divider and slide rule alongside his pint pot, crumpets and toaster*

Isn’t it right though that nobody in S12 – even the much vaunted Canterbury pack – put the Blues forwards on the back foot. Very easy for Carlos to shine when not under pressure? His pack should be under much more pressure Saturday.

That is the big question mark, as I've observed before. Rarely was Carlos under real, consistent pressure in S12. There was an off day once in mid-series that I recall, but the best effort against him for the season was from the Crusaders in the final (after the Blues had steamrolled the Crusaders earlier in the season).

One big difference with Wilko there is that at club level the Falcons forwards are frequently outplayed and Johnny has to learn how to play under that constraint.

Good point. Adversity adds qualities.

Absolutely. And not any old bank. I’d make sure it was an exclusive bank so only ‘exclusive’ people suffered.

The press to be honest seem to be a separate ethnic minority.

I have a friend who's a highly-respected journo. Nice chap, pretty much illiterate. Go figure.

*shakes head* A Pom who doesn’t like rugby or cricket?

Absolutely no interest. And he's a behavioural psychologist. If anyone would fascinate a behavioural psychologist you'd think it would have to be a rugby front row. It's totally beyond me.

He is a Kiwi playing in Scotland. He has no need to be nice to the English in any way. His opinion is as objective as I think we are likely to get from an exile here.

I only have one thing to say about Todd Blackadder - apart from his name, which conjures up blessed memories of one of Ben Elton's finest creations - and that is to cite the commentator who noted that his elevation to the AB captaincy signified the lowest of low ebbs in New Zealand rugby. Okay, so I might have added some poetry to what was said, but the gist was the same. And I only post this paragraph because it's easier than agreeing with you.

there is a danger certain elements in NZ are becoming arrogant and seem to think they have already lifted the World Cup. It will bite them in the a** if they let that attitude show against the Wallabies or us.

Look, it's a fair point, but remember that the ABs - and I mean the great AB teams - have been incredibly arrogant. I know you're talking more about what's happening off-field, but they probably travel hand in hand.

Has anyone told the Kiwi press?

I believe Tamerlin is writing a Letter to the Auckland Bugle Editor as we speak.

You have found a very rich vein of form this week Finbar. Warming up for your dinner party?

I'm usually in and out of the kitchen most of the night. But did you notice that the bastard totally ignored one of my better lines! Perles devant pourceau!

For myself – I have a feeling France are ready for a big game for this one.

Warming up to join Europe?

[Havak]

Heavens knows what colour smoke would come up the chimney.

Green and Gold?

that it all sounds and feels like homogenisation.

The Danes had the sense not to enter the Euro. Did I mention that I found the Irish very negative about it because the introduction had been used to raise the price of everything they liked (mainly beer).

I think I’ve said before the EC is now getting it wrong. Homogenisation on far too large a scale as well. I think the UKs days as part of this mess are numbered to be honest.

I'd be very surprised if your lot ever committed to a situation in which a bunch of soil tillers not long out of the Middle Ages - by which I mean D. Rumsfeld's New Europe - could outvote you (in the collective sense) on matters affecting you and your future.

I can’t see us ever doing so either. Should the axis succeed in removing the veto expect to see our parachute very quickly.

You might have run into some of the would-bes.

Lots of would-bes, but yes some naturals too. I think I’ve suggested before the Lions fans acted as a magnet to the would-bes type?

Obviously I'm going to have to have a look at these Rugger Tubbies on Saturday. If I see an ounce of body fat, I win the argument.

Deal. (It’s Lewsey, Robinson and Cohen so I hope I’m safe. Cohen is large but not ‘tubby’).

Just imagine, decades from now, Havak being quoted and paraphrased.

Scary thought isn’t it.

*Havak sets up his compass, protractor, divider and slide rule alongside his pint pot, crumpets and toaster*

Ah the classic ‘just-in-case-post-match-excuse-kit’. Quite right I shall.

That is the big question mark, as I've observed before

Yes it was your observation – I took in onboard from your comments. Didn’t mean to suggest it was an original thought of mine.

It is a key issue – we must assume the time and space he has will be much more limited that all those Super 12 games, even the final. This is the step up to Test level.

Good point. Adversity adds qualities.

I think he is a fairly rare case where playing in a non successful domestic side has truly been better for him.

I have a friend who's a highly-respected journo. Nice chap, pretty much illiterate. Go figure.

There’s nowt so strange as folk – people can have the most incongruous qualities to those of our expectations of them.

Sadly that’s not an original thought on my part either.

It's totally beyond me.

I can only think of seeing my previous point above?

And I only post this paragraph because it's easier than agreeing with you.

I understand.

I’ve commented on Todd before. When I first saw him in action for Edingburgh I couldn’t believe he had even played for the ABs to be honest. He’s not bad as such – he just doesn’t stand out in any phase of his play – and we have been brought up here to believe ABs should excel in almost every phase.

I know you're talking more about what's happening off-field, but they probably travel hand in hand

I was – but you point is still fair. It’s a fine line between ‘acceptable’ arrogance in a sports man/team and ‘smug’ arrogance though. And to be fair I’m not fingering players this week – it seems to be a fan and media thing right now.

I believe Tamerlin is writing a Letter to the Auckland Bugle Editor as we speak.

You had better write one too to let the guy know where France is?

But did you notice that the bastard totally ignored one of my better lines!

Use it again – he probably just missed it.

Warming up to join Europe?

I have to back France on this one.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
But did you notice that the bastard totally ignored one of my better lines! Perles devant pourceau!

Sometimes, only from times to times, I have to sleep...

Warming up to join Europe?

Is the biggest US Air Carrier ready to join Europe?

[Havak]

Probably not.

Argentina have lost Pichot by the way - which should help France considerably.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


Green and Gold?

With the Vodaphone motif added via digital technology!

The Danes had the sense not to enter the Euro. Did I mention that I found the Irish very negative about it because the introduction had been used to raise the price of everything they liked (mainly beer).

Yes, I heard something on the World Service about the Irish grizzling about price rises. I'm sure they'd've expected the Black Drop to be exempt.

Old joke:

Why did the Irish get the potatoes and the Arabs get the oil?
Because the Irish had first choice.

Now I wish I hadn't bothered.

I think I’ve suggested before the Lions fans acted as a magnet to the would-bes type?

Yes, as the old saying goes - an old joke, why not an old saying? - "like flies to sh*t".

Deal. (It’s Lewsey, Robinson and Cohen so I hope I’m safe. Cohen is large but not ‘tubby’).

Cohen is, um, beefy.

I think he is a fairly rare case where playing in a non successful domestic side has truly been better for him.

I saw a lot of it in AFL when I lived in Melbourne. One star in a very ordinary team. It does make them even better players because, apart from anything else, they finish up, by necessity, doing lots of everything. And the responsibility, providing their character is right, builds them as players and people.

I’ve commented on Todd before. When I first saw him in action for Edingburgh I couldn’t believe he had even played for the ABs to be honest. He’s not bad as such – he just doesn’t stand out in any phase of his play – and we have been brought up here to believe ABs should excel in almost every phase.

I remember he got the AB skipper gig because he was considered a good leader. He was, at the time, considered the best S12 skipper. I forget which outfit. Anyway, it only reflects on the depth of the doldrums the ABs were in at the time. And goodness how wheels can turn.

I was – but you point is still fair. It’s a fine line between ‘acceptable’ arrogance in a sports man/team and ‘smug’ arrogance though. And to be fair I’m not fingering players this week – it seems to be a fan and media thing right now.

They've never changed off-field either. The only time they were quiet was when they were in the Blackadder-era doldrums.

Use it again – he probably just missed it.

I notice he claims he was asleep. Likely story. Fuming, frothing at the mouth, gnashing his dents, so overcome with a case of J****'s patented Red Mist* that he couldn't see his keyboard.



*Copyright, J****.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


Sometimes, only from times to times, I have to sleep...

A likely story!

Is the biggest US Air Carrier ready to join Europe?

[Havak]

Damn it Tamerlin – I’ve just realised that Stade Francais winning that game means my Autumn away game will take me to Paris not Toulouse!

With the Vodaphone motif added via digital technology!

:b

Poor Bundaberg will feel left out.

I'm sure they'd've expected the Black Drop to be exempt.

The mind truly boggles that the administration didn’t protect it. The Irish are very easy going but price rises on the black stuff test that to the limit.

Yes, as the old saying goes - an old joke, why not an old saying? - "like flies to sh*t".

A nostalgic sequence.

I just couldn’t bring myself to comment on the joke…

Cohen is, um, beefy.

Developed into one hell of a player though – pace to take on a Howlett (don’t know about the new Pacific Islander AB?) and the strength to go through a Harrison.

And the responsibility, providing their character is right, builds them as players and people.

From which I can therefore draw the conclusion that Tigers bad year may have an upside after all?

And goodness how wheels can turn.

Four years is a long time in rugby. But not all that vintage were lacking. McCaw is the new star but he hasn’t yet proved to me he is a Kronfeld for example.

The only time they were quiet was when they were in the Blackadder-era doldrums.

This game will test that too. I hope they are either good winners or good losers as appropriate.

*Copyright, J****.

Can I collect his royalties?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Damn it Tamerlin – I’ve just realised that Stade Francais winning that game means my Autumn away game will take me to Paris not Toulouse!

So? What's a couple of hours in a train to meet up with our favourite grenouille and his têtard?

Developed into one hell of a player though – pace to take on a Howlett

Take him on, perhaps. Cohen, from my observation, unlike Howlett, needs to wind up. Tubbies are like that, I'm told.

(don’t know about the new Pacific Islander AB?)

Joe Rokocoko. Seriously, seriously quick. Big step up in class for him, though.

From which I can therefore draw the conclusion that Tigers bad year may have an upside after all?

Oddly enough, everything that applies to the rest of the world doesn't apply to the parallel universe that is Leicester.

Four years is a long time in rugby. But not all that vintage were lacking.

No, not all, but they had some very average - by their standards - players on the field. Most of all, they lacked that AB spirit - arrogance - call it what you like. They lost a hell of a lot when the Fitzpatrick-Zinzan-Bunce generation moved on. As happens.

Can I collect his royalties?

I'll save you having to ask and forward them straight to you. Anyone with a jaw as lantern-like as his is likely to think royalties are a couple of Kings and Queens anyway. Which is your cue to remind me that he's a merchant banker.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Strange that you talk about it in terms of it hampering the Maoris and give no credit to a side that coped with the conditions better. Nicely illustrates the point about England not getting an inch don’t you think?

Not really

The point I was making was that the Maori side is stronger on attack out wide, therefore the weather affected their game plan more than it did the English. NZ is the land of the long white cloud, not the land of the dark grey sky.

Not funny actually – just plain rude. When it is p****** it down it makes no sense to throw the ball wide – you use your forwards to keep hold of it and drive the opposition back. That the commentator did not like the fact that England were better at that is his problem not ours surely?

Re-read what I posted. The commentator made is comment because England threw the ball wide, and there was no speedster at the end to finish things off. Come on, where's that English humor we all know and love?

It's a strange one this - it's very legitimate to win a game through forward superiority but just doesn't seem to be popular with SH types. Any connection to the fact that NH teams are stronger in that area? Of course not!

As I said - well done England. A totally legitimate win.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Observational humour has to have some connection with the truth – this didn’t. Therefore simply Rude.

The truth of what he said was self-evident. England passed the ball out wide, and the wingers were too slow to make anything of it.