Rugby - Advantage!

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Originally posted by Havak
Also I hear Smith is ruled out for both Wales and England becuase of a neck injury?

Waugh is a capable replacement but I feel Smithy is a better counter to Backy to be honest.

Yes, hurt his neck against Ireland. I wasn't aware till tonight. I'd prefer him starting to Waugh. The fact that Smith started against the Irish means Eddie prefers him at this point in time.

And Burke has trouble with his knee too? You need that A team home right now?!

Burke was hoping to be ready for the Waratahs match against Samoa. His knee meant he'd had no rugby since the last S12 match, so he wasn't considered for the Tests. As it stands, I think, barring injuries to others, he will struggle to make it back into the Wallaby line-up. Eddie is determined to give the new centre combo - Steve Kefu and Turinui - a decent opportunity. So, with Latham and Roff covering wing and full back, and Mortlock due back after the Tests, I'm not sure where Burke will fit in. Flatley will kick until Latham returns, at which point, if Flatley drops out, Roff will kick.

There was also talk of Sailor picking up an injury. Good thing too. I suspect Lote Tuquiri might get a start this week on the wing.

[Havak]

I'd therefore put it this way - if you're missing either of them, you're in deep trouble.

And that remains a major concern to us. I didn’t mean to suggest Hodgson is as good as Wilko – he patently is not – but just wanted to point out when he is fit we aren’t quite so thoroughly dependent on the Falcons lad.

J is the bigger worry. None of the stand in captains they have tried when he has been out have shown real aptitude for the job – except perhaps for Backy but that is no good as the two will probably retire at the same time! Vickery does not convince me in the job but he seems favourite to land it. Maybe he will grow into it.

I remember a couple of his clangers out here. Poor chap.

Well when the coach insists on using a lightning fast wisp of a lad on crash ball you can expect it to knock the stuffing out of him?

Moi!

Yes but was that hope or expectation?

The fact that Smith started against the Irish means Eddie prefers him at this point in time.

George has developed into a very good player (grudgingly admitted). Maybe Waugh’s physical style will suit against England.

Wales first up though – and I expect a big win for you against those lads. Wales lost every single game in their six nations campaign and are nowhere near Ireland’s current standard. It could be a rout.

Thinking about it as well as that second row they have a useful openside (if he is fit) in Martyn Williams and the young fly half (again if they play him) Stephen Jones (no relation to the hack that I know of) has promise.

I suspect Lote Tuquiri might get a start this week on the wing.

It will be the right game to experiment in that’s for sure.

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Originally posted by Havak
J is the bigger worry. None of the stand in captains they have tried when he has been out have shown real aptitude for the job ? except perhaps for Backy but that is no good as the two will probably retire at the same time! Vickery does not convince me in the job but he seems favourite to land it. Maybe he will grow into it.

So there's a fair chance J**** will retire having led the Lions to a loss here and without having lifted a WRC. Shame.

Yes but was that hope or expectation?

Sufficient pins stuck into a certain doll's various organs and orifices.

George has developed into a very good player (grudgingly admitted). Maybe Waugh?s physical style will suit against England.

I think George has developed his all-round game more than Waugh has. He's added to his skills at the breakdown. His increased muscle hasn't affected his mobility and he can now function almost as a third centre. To be fair, Waugh has had fewer opportunities at the top level. His injury last year - that kept him off the NH tour - really interrupted his development.

Wales first up though ? and I expect a big win for you against those lads. Wales lost every single game in their six nations campaign and are nowhere near Ireland?s current standard. It could be a rout.

Well, yes, presumably. Bringing us back to the point of some of these matches. At best, they're trial games, which I suppose is ideal for us in the transitional period we're in. The only match really worth playing will be against England, and that will also depend on what sort of team you field. I honestly think Woodward would be mad to field a full-strength team against us. So much to lose with so little at stake.

The A Team thumped Japan twice, which is hardly a surprise. The important thing was no serious injuries.

[Havak]

So there's a fair chance J**** will retire having led the Lions to a loss here and without having lifted a WRC. Shame.

Well he isn’t the first Lions captain to have lost a series – particularly in the SH.

It's worth remembering that he won a Lions series in South Africa at the peak of their powers. Something the sainted Eales never achieved?

And he does plan to retire from International rugby either straight after lifting the Webb Ellis trophy this November or he may stay and defend the Grand Slam – but next April will certainly bring the curtain down. A happy day for yourself perhaps but a very sad day for English rugby.

Did you notice that I managed to forget Cohen in my team run down yesterday? Clive has of course picked Ben alongside Robinson and with Lewsey at full back. Lewsey is in sparkling form – all the pace of Balshaw but with more raw power backing it up.

In fact the team is exactly as fielded in Dublin for the Slam with just two changes on the bench – Vickery back for Woodman and Borthwick replacing Grewcock (who happens to be unavailable after his friendly punch to Dallaglio. Further note that Grewies temperament has only been suspect since Foley became his coach).

You know these two games should be the most open fixtures we have ever played. If the surfaces are firm England will play an expansive game I’m sure. So Eddie will need to criticise something else?

His increased muscle hasn't affected his mobility and he can now function almost as a third centre

When I first saw George I didn’t rate him as you know. But he has developed into a real talent. With the extra bulk his presence at the breakdown has a little more substance as well as guile/art. Good player – a bonus for us that he isn’t going to be there. I like Waughy too though - an honest hard working type of player.

I honestly think Woodward would be mad to field a full-strength team against us. So much to lose with so little at stake.

He will field a full side just as he is with the ABs. These games mean more to him than you think I suspect. I agree it makes no sense to risk injuries at this stage but he wants to lower your colours, trust me.

Well that and the added pressure that the press here seems to think that England should never ever lose (which is rubbish of course – any side can lose).

Are we all backing Scotland on Saturday. And France of course?

As for Wallabies versus Wales what a dilemma that is for me. I’ll have to back the draw.

Naturally everyone but Caligastia is backing England?

I watched the Maori game last night. The most interesting thing was their forwards were almost entirely contained and they could get no platform for long periods of the game.

Strangely the UK commentary was lost for ten minutes in the second half and we got what I think was Poido who indicated that the match meant nothing because it was raining and that wasn’t fair on the Maoris. I found that staggering to be honest – does he come out with a lot of such nonsense? NZ is hardly rain free at this time of year – have the Maori players never seen rain during a match?

The final rider on that is the Sky team were saying that the NZ press ripped into England for the 'insult' of fielding a second string against the Maoris before the game. Looking at the comprehensive way the boys did the job it is probably a good thing we didn't field the first string?

Moral of the story - press the world over really do talk some b*******?

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Originally posted by Havak
It's worth remembering that he won a Lions series in South Africa at the peak of their powers. Something the sainted Eales never achieved?

Given that the Sainted Eales - capitals, please - never played for the Lions, let alone captained them, because he wasn't eligible, does rather put it beyond even the Sainted Man Himself? Please note the final capital.

And he does plan to retire from International rugby either straight after lifting the Webb Ellis trophy this November or he may stay and defend the Grand Slam – but next April will certainly bring the curtain down. A happy day for yourself perhaps but a very sad day for English rugby.

So he's going to have to settle for retiring after possibly defending the Grand Slam? I might just have to get onto the England Six Nations bandwagon next season.

Did you notice that I managed to forget Cohen in my team run down yesterday? Clive has of course picked Ben alongside Robinson and with Lewsey at full back. Lewsey is in sparkling form – all the pace of Balshaw but with more raw power backing it up.

This is against whom? The ABs?

Further note that Grewies temperament has only been suspect since Foley became his coach).

Obviously Grewies doesn't have a mind of his own.

You know these two games should be the most open fixtures we have ever played. If the surfaces are firm England will play an expansive game I’m sure. So Eddie will need to criticise something else?

Elderly legs on firm surfaces? I hope J**** brought his pressure bandages.

When I first saw George I didn’t rate him as you know. But he has developed into a real talent.

And, I hadn't realised, this is his first injury in four years. That's what I call a lucky run, particularly for a very physical player. Now, of course, apart from admiring his talent, you admire my ability to predict.

I like Waughy too though - an honest hard working type of player.

Yes, and with a long future. He's still only young.

He will field a full side just as he is with the ABs. These games mean more to him than you think I suspect. I agree it makes no sense to risk injuries at this stage but he wants to lower your colours, trust me.

Well that and the added pressure that the press here seems to think that England should never ever lose (which is rubbish of course – any side can lose).

And if a full side does lose? What happens to him then?

Are we all backing Scotland on Saturday. And France of course?

The Boks at home? They might suddenly rediscover some pride. I wouldn't be surprised. And Scotland might not be able to do it again. We haven't heard from Tamerlin for a while. Presumably he's lost somewhere in the Pampas.

Strangely the UK commentary was lost for ten minutes in the second half and we got what I think was Poido

I just discovered, to my fury, that FoxSports covered the game the other day and I missed it. It wouldn't have been Poido. He's with the 7 Network here. It would have been the FoxSports (Sky) Kiwi commentators who do their S12 matches. Murray Maxted - I think that's how it's spelled - does their special comments. A former AB prop. Say no more.

[Havak]

I think you are very well aware that I meant that the Sainted Eales Himself never led the Wallabies to a series win there. In fact he struggled to get you to win single tests there did he not?

So he's going to have to settle for retiring after possibly defending the Grand Slam? I might just have to get onto the England Six Nations bandwagon next season.

The All Blacks will have to be a stellar class above the Maori before I entirely give up on the RWC Finbar.

In fact your scratch line up looked a bigger threat than the team the Kiwi’s on Planet Rugby claimed would put fifty on our second string.

In fact there is amusement to be had here. You know we Brits claim the SH ‘fans’ are out of touch with reality? Check out this opinion piece here for the views of one J Lindsay who is so blinkered he should be pulling a dray wagon. What the hell is ‘charging’ at a scrum and how can the weather defeat a side – normally the opposition does.

Sometimes as a Rugby fan you have to stick your hands up and admit you were wrong. The Wallabies made me do that last weekend. But it seems there is a hard core in the SH that will not give England an inch? The second line boys won and won well against a side they were told (even by some players in the Maori squad) would defeat them thoroughly and still these ‘fans’ insist they were beaten by everything BUT the opposing players. It’s a little sad. They could be Glaws fans.

This is against whom? The ABs?

Yep.

Obviously Grewies doesn't have a mind of his own.

Um, he is a lock you know.

Elderly legs on firm surfaces? I hope J**** brought his pressure bandages.

I’d imagine he always does. I’d suggest you look at the age of our back line again though.

With any luck it will rain and give me the huge amusement of hearing Kiwi’s (no strangers to rain) complain about having to play a Winter sport in rain. Ah diddums, and I thought it was a man’s game?

Lets translate this clearly shall we – SH sides seem to be much poorer in rainy conditions therefore they argue Rugby should not be played in rain. Very cosy and self serving isn’t it? Doesn’t give them much comeback if we should complain about hard surfaces though does it?

Now, of course, apart from admiring his talent, you admire my ability to predict.

I’ll admit you got this one right yes. I think you may be on a loser with the Webb Ellis trophy predictions today though.

Yes, and with a long future. He's still only young.

Career length depends on his sharing Smithy’s luck on the injury front. Waugh has already had trouble hasn’t he?

And if a full side does lose? What happens to him then?

Nothing should happen. When the top two ranked sides in the world play number one will not always win, particularly when away. It would even take some pressure off him in a way, the Kiwi’s would risk becoming very over confident for RWC too (and we have seen what happens when that occurs)?

Having said that with our press I would expect calls for him to resign.

I’m fervently hoping we do win. There is a small but vocal minority of Caligastias countrymen like the lamentable J Lindsay who really need bringing down a peg or two.

The Boks at home? They might suddenly rediscover some pride

They were awful Finbar – they need to find more than pride. The Scot forwards out muscled them a lot of the time – and that a pack that Ireland dominated!!

I don’t know how to call the Pumas-France game. One never knows what mood the French will be in on tour.

A former AB prop. Say no more.

A true neutral then?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar


I watched part of the first half and the whole second half. The couple of Bok tries in that patch in the second half lifted them back into a match they had no right to win. Apart from that patch, I thought the Scots outplayed them and were very stiff to lose.

I was willing the scots to crash over the line for that last minute try.

Ultimately, though, I suppose it means the Boks and Scotland are pretty evenly matched. I'm not sure where that places the Boks in the overall quality scheme of things.

Looks like the Boks will never win a RWC legitimately.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
It sounds like the teams played against type – Vickery generally making us kick for touch rather than take penalties and the Maoris the ones taking potshots..

Whether it tells us anything useful who knows – that was definitely a second string England side and the Kiwi press are probably already working on the reasons why that was a ‘developmental’ Maori side.

I think the weather probably worked against the Maori too. The game was knock-ons galore for both sides, so very little fancy passing bore any fruit.

One of the kiwi commentators cracked me up when he commented on one of the few times England got to shovel the ball out wide - "They've got a line-up out wide - trouble is they're all fatties!"

Well done England. This weekend's game is positively mouthwatering.

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Originally posted by Havak
I think you are very well aware that I meant that the Sainted Eales Himself never led the Wallabies to a series win there.

If that's what you meant, you should have made it clear!

In fact he struggled to get you to win single tests there did he not?

Interestingly enough, the Wallabies and England have both won only twice in South Africa in the last 11 years. So J****, unless backed up by the pick of 4 rugby countries, had no more or less success than The Sainted One.

The All Blacks will have to be a stellar class above the Maori before I entirely give up on the RWC Finbar.

Um, I think they are.

In fact there is amusement to be had here. You know we Brits claim the SH ‘fans’ are out of touch with reality? Check out this opinion piece here for the views of one J Lindsay who is so blinkered he should be pulling a dray wagon. What the hell is ‘charging’ at a scrum and how can the weather defeat a side – normally the opposition does.

I'll read it in a minute. But here you go again seeking solace in the rantings of lunatics.

Sometimes as a Rugby fan you have to stick your hands up and admit you were wrong. The Wallabies made me do that last weekend.

They beat crap - in the second half - opposition with panache. The real tests (so to speak) are yet to come.

But it seems there is a hard core in the SH that will not give England an inch? The second line boys won and won well against a side they were told (even by some players in the Maori squad) would defeat them thoroughly and still these ‘fans’ insist they were beaten by everything BUT the opposing players. It’s a little sad. They could be Glaws fans.

Again, why bother about lunatics?

I’d imagine he always does. I’d suggest you look at the age of our back line again though.

I wonder about the average age of your pack on hard grounds, though. The ball has to reach the backs, y'see.

With any luck it will rain and give me the huge amusement of hearing Kiwi’s (no strangers to rain) complain about having to play a Winter sport in rain. Ah diddums, and I thought it was a man’s game?

Careful, you're succumbing to J. Lindsay Syndrome.

I’ll admit you got this one right yes. I think you may be on a loser with the Webb Ellis trophy predictions today though.

We shall see, we shall see. Care to double up on the 50 Civ Gold that the ABs will take the WRC?

Career length depends on his sharing Smithy’s luck on the injury front. Waugh has already had trouble hasn’t he?

Quite right. Smith's run of luck was extraordinary. A testament to his fitness, but still - very lucky.

Having said that with our press I would expect calls for him to resign.

That's what I meant. :nodding agreement:

I’m fervently hoping we do win. There is a small but vocal minority of Caligastias countrymen like the lamentable J Lindsay who really need bringing down a peg or two.

I've got a bit of a problem this Saturday. England -v- ABs at 5pm, followed by Wallabies -v- Wales at 7pm. And I've got six people coming for dinner. It could be Baked Beans on Toast.

They were awful Finbar – they need to find more than pride. The Scot forwards out muscled them a lot of the time – and that a pack that Ireland dominated!!

Yes, they were awful. I saw it. The Boks coach is copping it from all sides over there - he's turning out a team of robots, stifling individual creativity, preaching an out-of-date, us -v- them mentality. Trouble is, I'm not sure how much inherent creativity exists within the team to be unleashed. Their S12 teams were, on the whole, unimaginative. I recall remarking on the younger players in the team that beat us over there in the Tri-Nations last season. They did show some imagination and initiative. I'm not sure where they've gone.

I don’t know how to call the Pumas-France game. One never knows what mood the French will be in on tour.

And if they're not on song, they might get a fright. The Pumas can be very dangerous at home.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar
here you go again seeking solace in the rantings of lunatics.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia
One of the kiwi commentators cracked me up when he commented on one of the few times England got to shovel the ball out wide - "They've got a line-up out wide - trouble is they're all fatties!"

Sounds like a Murray Maxted line to me.

Well done England. This weekend's game is positively mouthwatering.

It is too. They're starting Nonu and Rokocoko. It will be interesting to see how Rokocoko, in particular, handles stepping up a class from S12 rugby. You can get away with being an out-and-out speedster winger in S12 but Test rugby demands more. His defence is pretty much untested. Odds on it's one of the first things England will examine. OTOH, just as Elton Flatley did, he will make Jason Robinson look and feel like a milko's horse.

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Originally posted by Caligastia
Looks like the Boks will never win a RWC legitimately.

I gather Australian Customs will be on the lookout for phials of Botulism in the Boks' RWC luggage.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar


Sounds like a Murray Maxted line to me.

Mexted I think it is.

It is too. They're starting Nonu and Rokocoko. It will be interesting to see how Rokocoko, in particular, handles stepping up a class from S12 rugby. You can get away with being an out-and-out speedster winger in S12 but Test rugby demands more. His defence is pretty much untested. Odds on it's one of the first things England will examine. OTOH, just as Elton Flatley did, he will make Jason Robinson look and feel like a milko's horse.

From what I have seen Rokocoko should be up to the task, and Nonu should be an exciting addition too. The combination with Umaga should keep the poms on their toes.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
In fact there is amusement to be had here. You know we Brits claim the SH ‘fans’ are out of touch with reality? Check out this opinion piece here for the views of one J Lindsay who is so blinkered he should be pulling a dray wagon. What the hell is ‘charging’ at a scrum and how can the weather defeat a side – normally the opposition does.

Frankly, I thought there was idiocy dotted right through the page.

And, when you think about it, it's probably only to be expected from idiots with nothing better to do than occupy the idle time between medications by prattling endlessly about rugby on the internet.

[Caligastia]

Oh, you are good finbar.