1975: Saigon surrenders

[Ned]

It's a simple one-liner, with no background at all, that says that the SC will no longer be "seized" of the Complaint of Aggression by North Korean.

[gsmoove23]

Once the objective of the Korean War became the unification of Korea, after the security of South Korea had been assured I think it could be considered a war of aggression. Of course the SC wouldn't recognize this because it was an active participant. I'm sure the resolution wouldn't have passed if the Soviets had been there, as it was the UN was very much a tool of western democracies against the "evil" communists without the Soviet veto. It was a much different organization during the Cold War.

[Ned]

I agree. Once the NK had been defeated, the UN SC resolutions were satisfied. I think we had a major problem trying to get the SC to condemn China's intervention. Uncle Joe would have not of that. So all we could do is take the whole issue off the table. From that point on, the US and allies were a "coalition." I do not know if we even used the blue UN helmets and flags anymore, if we ever did.

It was during this time that Truman failed to back MacArthur's request to go over the border on reconnaissance missions. Trumans was trying to be as circumspect as possible in order to get the votes in the SC. He obviously did not succeed.

[gsmoove23]

As I understand it from start to finish the Korean war was a UNO operation with only 85% US military forces, but nice try. The UN was probably less willing to go along, but they did.

[Ned]

Originally posted by gsmoove23
As I understand it from start to finish the Korean war was a UNO operation with only 85% US military forces, but nice try. The UN was probably less willing to go along, but they did.

gsmoove, perhaps we need someone like Roland to step in here and tell us the cosequencies of the Jan. 31, 1951, resolution, but I think that Korea ceased to be a UN authorized operation on that date. The US forces on the border today are not UN peacekeepers, which they would be if the UN were "in charge" throughout the conflict.

[gsmoove23]

Originally posted by Ned
It's a simple one-liner, with no background at all, that says that the SC will no longer be "seized" of the Complaint of Aggression by North Korean.

I believe you've mistaken the statement. It is meerly saying that the UN will not discuss the complaint the NORTH Koreans have brought about agression. Meaning the NORTH Koreans are complaining and the UN will not listen to their whining. At least thats how I read it. The Korean War was fought by the UNO throughout.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by gsmoove23
Now I'm sure the Soviets were quite happy to allow the chinese and americans to go at it as long as the soviets sat on the sidelines and I'm sure there are plenty of Kremlin documents that say this but Stalin was hardly in the position to dictate policy to Mao and Mao was hardly disposed to taking orders. BS plain and simple.

You have so much to learn, and I don't mean that as a slap in the face.
Josef and Mao were in a partnership, and Josef was the senior partner. Without Josef, China was nothing, and I mean nothing. Every gun, missile, ship, tank, and airplane was soviet supplied. Think man, this was 1950, Mao and Company had only been in charge one year and yet to consolidate his hold on all of China. If Mao did do what Uncle Joe said, he would cut off all of his aid. Without his aid the ROC could have invaded anytime they wanted to. With his aid, ROC had no change in hell invading.

[Dinner]

Also remember that Joe gave Mao detailed plans plus enriching equipment needed to make a nuclear bomb. China would have eventual made their own nukes but given Mao's fondness for reeducating "stinking intellectuals" it would have been a long slow process. Stalin set them up as a show of international communist solidarity.

[gsmoove23]

Joe did not fully support Mao's intervention in Korea, which is why Mao hesitated in sending his troops. Remember, as the US has learned many times, just because you're the cash cow doesn't mean you're the only one doing the manipulating. Stalin gave the support for a reason, because maintaining some influence over the chinese was important to him. Mao certainly knew this and used this meaning Joe's support hardly gained him control over Mao, just influence.

[Q Classic]

wrong. joe supported mao's intervention in korea. he just didn't want to have any soviets die in the war.

[gsmoove23]

Stalin in no way told Mao that he wanted Mao to enter Korea. By telling him he wouldn't back him up in Korea he was essentially dissuading him from entering. There is little evidence to support what you're saying besides your opinion.

[SlowwHand]

(Oh No) Here Comes a Commie
Skrewdriver

He looks to the East
Worships the Beast
Nothing but air in his head
He appears in your eyes
Peddling lies
Selling out the work of the dead
He's out there every single morning
Talking about his new day that is dawning

Oh no, here come's a commie!
Red star on his breast
Oh no, here come's a commie!
Won't you give it a rest?!

This whole land
He has a plan
To bring it all down to the ground
Confuse you with lies
Inform his spies
Brings our destruction around
He just want's to see our nations dying
His desire is for a red flag flying

Oh no, here come's a commie!
Red star on his breast
Oh no, here come's a commie!
Won't you give it a rest?!

(instrumental)

Oh no, here come's a commie!
Red star on his breast
Oh no, here come's a commie!
Won't you give it a rest?!

Oh no, here come's a commie!
Red star on his breast
Oh no, here come's a commie!
Won't you give it a rest?!
Oh no, here come's a commie!
Says his revolution is nigh
Won't you - off and die

[gsmoove23]

I have no words...

[Ned]

Originally posted by gsmoove23
Stalin in no way told Mao that he wanted Mao to enter Korea. By telling him he wouldn't back him up in Korea he was essentially dissuading him from entering. There is little evidence to support what you're saying besides your opinion.

I have actually seen a lot of the diplomatic cable traffic between Moscow, Peking and NK. I think one should be able to find it on the web to give a definitive answer to the question of Stalin's support for Mao's intervention.

[Ned]

Slowwhand, that's one song you will not hear Madonna sing.