U.S. Troops Fire on Iraq Protesters Again

[Lazerus]

Well a few months ago they'd have all been shot and their families imprisoned for even thinking of any kind of public demonstration so they should slap themselves and be glad atleast they're on the way to a democracy and not approach soldiers who are technically still in a war stance.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Tuomerehu
About the "evildoers"... It doesn't mean anything, but the way I see it, these people who call themselves "patriots" are trying to create a word, so their current hero, George W. Bush wouldn't look like an idiot.
I think it's extremely humorous, and at the same time quite disturbing, that they're ready to change fundamental rules to alter the truth.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Lazerus
Well a few months ago they'd have all been shot and their families imprisoned for even thinking of any kind of public demonstration so they should slap themselves and be glad atleast they're on the way to a democracy and not approach soldiers who are technically still in a war stance.

anti-American protests have always been permissable in Iraq.

[Lazerus]

public demonstration against the ruling authority then if you're going to be picky

[JCG]

Can't they use tear gas or something, for once?

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by War of Art


Who needs a motive if you're a nineteen year old cowboy with an automatic weapon surrounded by people you refer to as "rag-heads"

How about this car full of women and children that got shot up because the ruddy Yanks thought it might be a suicide bomber? Who goes car bombing with the wife and kids? I know I don't.

-Jam

Congratulations. you just bumped CyberGnu off my signature in a single post.

[Guynemer]

Clem

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Felch X
He is doing something evil.

Who's doing something evil? Is it a fact that some gunman was shooting at the US troops? How would that be "evil?"

Originally posted by Felch X
There is evil in the world Sava.

I agree, such as US troops shooting into unarmed civilians. I think this is called a massacre.

[Cyclotron]

So gunmen shooting at US troops are not evil, but US troops shooting at gunmen are?

[Imran Siddiqui]

cyclo, of course!

Don't you know that EVERYTHING the US does is wrong, while the people against the US are always right

[Zevico]

"How about this car full of women and children that got shot up because the ruddy Yanks thought it might be a suicide bomber? Who goes car bombing with the wife and kids? I know I don't."
Previous incidents occurred when women [even one pregnant one] were suicide bombers. Plus it's not like they can see the children inside.
Also, why was this bus shot at-the official reason, that is?

[Ned]

Doesn't anyone find it slightly odd that no Iraqi brought a home video camera to the demonstration?

Or maybe they did.

[Kramerman]

same old, same old

I know how the anti american crowd in Iraq will spin this (as propoganda), and i cant do anythign about that. But how can some of you guys judge the US so harshly, or make any judgement for that matter, while there is so little confirmed evidence of waht went on?

Who needs a motive if you're a nineteen year old cowboy with an automatic weapon surrounded by people you refer to as "rag-heads"

omg... what an accurate generalization of the US military!

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by Zevico
"How about this car full of women and children that got shot up because the ruddy Yanks thought it might be a suicide bomber? Who goes car bombing with the wife and kids? I know I don't."
Previous incidents occurred when women [even one pregnant one] were suicide bombers. Plus it's not like they can see the children inside.
Also, why was this bus shot at-the official reason, that is?

US Troops Kill Seven Women and Children at Checkpoint
By Rupert Cornwell
Independent
April 1, 2003

American troops shot and killed seven Iraqi women and children yesterday when the van in which they were travelling failed to obey orders to halt at a checkpoint near the city of Najaf in southern Iraq. Hours later, US Marines killed another Iraqi civilian at another roadblock. His passenger was seriously wounded. The man's pickup truck was riddled with bullets after it sped towards an Allied roadblock on the main highway outside the southern town of Shatra today. Pentagon officials said the seven dead near Najaf were among 13 women and children in the vehicle. Soldiers first fired warning shots into the air, and then into the engine of the van, but failed to bring it to a halt.

"As a last resort the soldiers fired into the passenger compartment of the vehicle. Inside they found 13 women and children. Seven of the occupants were dead," a spokesman said. Two others were wounded, while the remaining four were huddled in the van, uninjured. "Initial reports indicate the soldiers responded in accordance with the rules of engagement to protect themselves. In light of recent terrorist attacks by the Iraqi regime, the soldiers exercised considerable restraint to avoid the unnecessary loss of life, " the spokesman said. An investigation was under way, he added.

The incident is exactly the kind the US and Britain most wished to avoid in a war in which the manner of victory is as important as victory itself. But it bears out grim predictions that such tragedies are all but inevitable when jumpy local coalition commanders decide to take no chances. Precisely that happened in Najaf at the weekend, when a taxi turned into a suicide car bomb as it was being examined at a checkpoint, and four US soldiers were killed. The Iraqi government delivered a chilling warning immediately after that attack that it had at least 4,000 volunteer martyrs lined up ready to give their lives in the struggle against American and British invaders.

Since then, even stricter precautions have been in force – possibly leading to the killing of the seven women and children. Fears of suicide attacks on other British or American targets were heightened last night after a pick-up truck carrying extra cans of petrol smashed into the main gatepost of the British embassy in Iran and burst into flames, three days after the embassy was besieged by anti-war protesters.

The cause of the incident, in which the driver died, was being investigated the Foreign Office said. There were no casualties among embassy staff, many of whom live within the compound in central Tehran. The small pick-up truck hit the wall close to the embassy's main gates around 10:15pm (1945BST) and burst into flames. "It's improbable that this was a suicide attack, but the case needs more investigation," said Ali Taala, general director of security and political affairs at Tehran's governor's office.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attack/2003/0401ustroops.htm

[The Mad Monk]

U.S. investigates checkpoint shooting

DOHA, Qatar (CNN) -- The U.S. is investigating a shooting at a military checkpoint that killed seven Iraqi civilians, and came just days after a suicide bombing at another checkpoint in southern Iraq killed four U.S. soldiers.

At least seven women and children were killed and two others wounded in the incident. The van they were in failed to stop after repeated warnings at a U.S. Army checkpoint near the town of Najaf on Monday afternoon, according to coalition officials.

The incident occurred two days after a suicide car bomber killed four 3rd Infantry Division soldiers by detonating his vehicle at a checkpoint in the region. (Full story)

Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks, at U.S. Central Command in Qatar, said "there is increased vigilance" now because of the "tactics we've seen in the battlefield by the regime."

Central Command said Monday's incident began to unfold about 4:30 p.m. [8:30 a.m. EST], when soldiers from the 3rd Infantry Division at the Route 9 checkpoint near Najaf motioned for the vehicle to stop. The driver ignored repeated warnings.

The soldiers then fired warning shots into the air and the engine that were ignored. Unable to see inside the van, the soldiers fired into the passenger compartment of the vehicle "as a last resort," a Central Command statement said.

"In light of recent terrorist attacks by the Iraqi regime, the soldiers exercised considerable restraint to avoid the unnecessary loss of life," said Central Command, which added that the soldiers could not see the van's occupants when they fired.

A Washington Post reporter embedded with the Army's 3rd Infantry Division reported that the vehicle carried 15 people and that 10 of them -- including five children who appeared to be under 5 -- were killed. The reporter also said a man was critically wounded.

A top U.S. Marine at Central Command called it a "very tragic incident" and said an investigation has been launched. But the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Peter Pace, said the soldiers "did the right thing."

In a story on the paper's Web site, The Washington Post reporter wrote that the unit's captain ordered the first warning shot. As the four-wheel drive Toyota continued down the road, the captain ordered one round fired into its radiator.

After that failed to stop the vehicle, according to the Post reporter, the captain yelled "Stop him, Red 1, stop him!" That was followed by about a half-dozen shots from the 25 mm cannon on the platoon's Bradley armored vehicle, the reporter wrote.

"You just [expletive] killed a family because you didn't fire a warning shot soon enough!" the reporter quoted the captain as yelling at the platoon leader.

'The most horrible thing I've ever seen'
Commenting on the incident early Tuesday, CENTCOM spokesman James Wilkinson told CNN that the newspaper account does not match the report from field commanders.

"On the battle field we have this phenomenon called 'fog of war," he said. "We continue to see reports from embedded reporters that have discrepancies from our headquarter's reports. What I can tell you is that right now as we speak, we are working to reconcile this."

An Army medic was quoted in the Washington Post as saying, "It was the most horrible thing I've ever seen, and I hope I never see it again."

Central Command said it appeared the proper rules of engagement were followed.

"They absolutely did the right thing," Pace, a Marine, said Monday in an interview on PBS' "The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer."

"They tried to warn the vehicle to stop," Pace said. "It did not stop."

Pace blamed the shooting on the "environment" created by recent incidents in which Iraqi soldiers have dressed as civilians and used women and children as shields.

"Our soldiers on the ground have an absolute right to defend themselves. They will always, if they can, find a way to stop a vehicle like that without having to actually to fire at it. But in the final analysis, when their lives are threatened, and of course they thought they were, they will shoot."

In an interview with CNN's Larry King, Col. Tom Bright -- the Marine Corps chief at the U.S. Central Command's joint operations center in Qatar -- said simply, "It was a very tragic incident."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/01/sprj.irq.van.shooting/

As a reminder -- this is the incident War of Art is refering to in my signature.