Super Apolyton Pack! The Fan's Unofficial Patch.

[Immortal Wombat]

Peter, your cat is called Gottlob? I thought it was Goblin

[ETB]

Originally posted by TheArsenal
I was a fan of the Ultra-Gigantic Map, and regularly played with 11 civs. But on my system, I was finding in the later game, especially with the large armies needed for multi-front campaigns, that it was taking quite some time between turns. Up to 7, 8 minutes sometimes. I'm sure that's a hardware issue. So while I miss that size map in some ways, I am finding I enjoy the quicker turn time more. If it turns out its not a hardware issue, I would be glad to see the Ultra-Gigantic make a return.

Yes, I had forgotten about those long waits between turns. Sometimes I would cook a meal and eat it while the AIs completed their turns! I think that I spent about 3 months playing one of those games (and I don’t think that I’ve played since then. Hmmmm….). It was interesting though because there would always be some strong AIs on the other side of the world that would give me lots of trouble when we would finally meet up. Plus, it seemed more like our world with so many different AIs running around. I’ll probably need to try some “regular-sized” games before I even think about going to the oversized map!

[ETB]

Re: Bugs

Originally posted by mnbryan37
Martin,

You are correct. The V2.0 does not include your fix of the crash's that occurr when pillaging neutral tile improvements. I think it does include all the other fixes though.

Bill

Ha - father knows best!!!

[TheArsenal]

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by Peter Triggs
The AI likes water about as much as my cat, Gottlob, liked going for a swim. It's disappointing: the game has lots of great naval units but I find that as soon as I put any significant percentage of water on the map, I'm in for an easy game.

I am finding the AI will send out a few naval units to pillage, but will only, occasionally, land units on your soil in stacks of one or two.

I very often use a stacked fleet of three battleships, three troop ships, one sub (purely to see other subs) in "hit and run missions". I bombard a city a few turns, unload, destroy it, then sail off to another city or sue for peace. In the prior mod I could win this way practically. What I am finding though, in this mod, is once I begin bombarding, the AI's land units dispatch more quickly and in larger stacks to deal with the threat - making the amphibious assault more costly to me (although AI units will occasionally flee the city entirely). This is a big improvement.

It sounds as though getting the AI to launch amphibious assaults is very difficult (I know ZERO about modding) but is it possible to get it to produce more naval units and patrol its shores more vigilantly? The naval aspect of the game is one of my favorites.

[Ashura]

Thanks Peter,

I think that might do because it compelll the AI to have bombard capable unit before attacking. There's might be something too in the strategies file but I do not really understand it right now.

I agree too with Arsenal that we might first try to improve the naval ability of the AI with the build and stratgies may be. But I do not understand the ins and outs of those file...

Arsenal, I like very much the naval aspect of the game (and the underwater cities too).

[DeanToth]

Hi everyone! Long time no chat.

I have been playing an Apolyton 2.0 game for a while now. So, it is a huge improvement over standard CTP2. I love it, love it, love it!!! I am having fun... but..... (the inevitable "but")

- when I try to disband a city, I get an error

In object MM2_CapitalCaptured, variables 'MM2_CapitalCaptured#tmpCity1' and 'noname' are of different types

and when I click "OK" another message pops up:

In object MM2_CapitalCaptured, function _CityHasBuilding: Wrong kind of builtin variable

Then I alt+tab back to the game and it SEEMS to work fine. (but is it really working fine? what am I missing in the background?)



- Now that my game has progressed to the modern age, I get this message every single turn for the past 4 or 5 turns:

C:\PROGRAM FILES\activision\call to power 2\ctp2_data\default\gamedata\APOL_airunit.slc:112: array index 0 out of bounds


When I click "OK" the game continues, but i am worried the errors are affecting the AI or something... HELP!

[DeanToth]

I agree with the posts regarding large amounts of ocean. I love to play with plenty of ocean and fairly large "continental islands" (australia-like landmasses).

but the AI never does anything but send one or three units at a time across the pond.

Even in the original CTP and Civ games, I felt this was a limit of the AI ability to have a "two step" planning strategy. It is easy for the AI to think "OK, I will send 12 soldiers to city X and destroy it"

But to do the same across water, the AI has to think "OK, i must have 4 carracks first, load each one with 3 soldiers, then unload them, then reform my 12-stack"

This brings up the attendant problem of having the AI build the carracks in the first place... the AI has to think of the future, of less immediately tangible goals in order to do so.. Otherwise, the AI tends to just buff up it's army with whatever is most powerful (artillery, etc).

This extra intermediate step is understandably difficult to program, but yet is one of the KEY weaknesses to any wargame i've ever played.

I don't suppose any SLIC code could address this?

Even so, I guess I could live with playing on no-ocean maps and have fun anyway... thanks so much for this great mod.

[DeanToth]

OK, i've tried reloadslic and loading the plain game in modswapper and then exiting and loading the Apolyton game.. it didn't work.

I still get the "air unit" message listed above.

Now, instead of one error, I get 4 per turn. When I hit "OK" another identical error pops up until I click "OK" on all four.

I presume this means the enemy empire now has 4 air units and they each cause this error, per turn.

HELP!! should I re-download the AP2.0 files and reinstall them? I downloaded my files a couple weeks ago.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by DeanToth
I agree with the posts regarding large amounts of ocean. I love to play with plenty of ocean and fairly large "continental islands" (australia-like landmasses).

but the AI never does anything but send one or three units at a time across the pond.

Even in the original CTP and Civ games, I felt this was a limit of the AI ability to have a "two step" planning strategy. It is easy for the AI to think "OK, I will send 12 soldiers to city X and destroy it"

But to do the same across water, the AI has to think "OK, i must have 4 carracks first, load each one with 3 soldiers, then unload them, then reform my 12-stack"

This brings up the attendant problem of having the AI build the carracks in the first place... the AI has to think of the future, of less immediately tangible goals in order to do so.. Otherwise, the AI tends to just buff up it's army with whatever is most powerful (artillery, etc).

This extra intermediate step is understandably difficult to program, but yet is one of the KEY weaknesses to any wargame i've ever played.

I don't suppose any SLIC code could address this?

Even so, I guess I could live with playing on no-ocean maps and have fun anyway... thanks so much for this great mod.

Maybe you like to test this code. It will move AI units in from costial tile into an transporter presuming a neigbour sea has a transporter. This code will also regroup AI stacks in order to remove the settlers from them and other speacial units that shouldn't be part of an attack stack. Additional it will move armies from roads that wants to fortify there. And finally it will build roads around AI cities in order to bypass the AI city location.

But note IIRC there is one small problem in it: It will also move AI units into transports if there is only one unit and the transporter has a capacity of five units.

The intention of this code is: Once a transporter is filled the AI will choose a apropiate goal for the transporter.

For instalation just unzip the attached *.zip file into your ..\ctp2_data\default\gamedata\ directory and find there the file APOL_script.slc.

Open this file and add the line at the end:

#include "MG_BetterAI.slc"

Note if you have installed GoodMod v.0.99 than this file in the attachment will overwrite a previous version of this file. The version of the current GoodMod version does not contain the AI regroup stack code and the ship loader, therefore make a backup before overwriting. Then happy testing.

-Martin

[TheArsenal]

Originally posted by ETB


Yes, I had forgotten about those long waits between turns. Sometimes I would cook a meal and eat it while the AIs completed their turns! I think that I spent about 3 months playing one of those games (and I don’t think that I’ve played since then. Hmmmm….). It was interesting though because there would always be some strong AIs on the other side of the world that would give me lots of trouble when we would finally meet up. Plus, it seemed more like our world with so many different AIs running around. I’ll probably need to try some “regular-sized” games before I even think about going to the oversized map!

What I also like about the Ultra-Gigantic Map were the logistics involved in dealing with those powerful civs on the other side of the globe - since I'm a war monger - when planning/engaging in battle. Since these civs were inevitably huge and could muster large armies, invasions required detailed planning of troop supply lines and airstrip positioning (I do most of my warring in the Modern Era). Especially since in the last ApolytonPack you couldn't just destroy a city, if you took it, you're defending it (a clarification from my prior email which made it sound like I was destroying cities in the previous mod as opposed to occupying) Creating a supply line of cities to a civ across the map meant fighting your way through other civs to do it.

I also like that sense of anticipation in the early game looking at the rankings and seeing this powerful civ out there somewhere, getting the occasional message that the civ has conquered yet another civ somewhere, yet I can't seem to find it yet even with my newly built longships. And that "holy crap" feeling when I do finally get map and this civ is massively spread out everywhere.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by DeanToth
OK, i've tried reloadslic and loading the plain game in modswapper and then exiting and loading the Apolyton game.. it didn't work.

I still get the "air unit" message listed above.

Now, instead of one error, I get 4 per turn. When I hit "OK" another identical error pops up until I click "OK" on all four.

I presume this means the enemy empire now has 4 air units and they each cause this error, per turn.

HELP!! should I re-download the AP2.0 files and reinstall them? I downloaded my files a couple weeks ago.

Maybe you should check your userprofile.txt in your ..\ctp2_program\ctp\ folder. Open this file and search for a line DebugSlic=. If it set on Yes than change it to No.

Another note on the installation on the previous attachment: Of course once you reloaded the game you have to reloadslic. Therefore (actual this is meant for all) just open the chat window by typing the apostrophe key and enter /reloadslic

-Martin

[DeanToth]

Martin -

Thank you very much. The "DebugSlic=No" trick is working... I no longer get 4 errors per turn.

Now I wonder - have I turned off the error reporting while the error is still occurring in the background? Is there a fundamental problem that is still occurring which is now 'hidden' because of turning off the debug feature? sorry to be so picky.... I still *love* AP2.0!

===========================




OK, I will try your new AI-code as it sounds very interesting. I have some questions:

You wrote:
-----------------------------
Maybe you like to test this code. It will move AI units in from costial tile into an transporter presuming a neigbour sea has a transporter.
-----------------------------
I'm sorry to pester you with questions..... but does this mean the AI will only move units into a Transport when a neighboring AI-controlled city of the same empire has a transport too? (this makes no sense)... i am confused... sorry! please help



Thanks again for your "debug" tip! I am now back into my game.

[Peter Triggs]

Originally posted by DeanToth
- Now that my game has progressed to the modern age, I get this message every single turn for the past 4 or 5 turns:

C:\PROGRAM FILES\activision\call to power 2\ctp2_data\default\gamedata\APOL_airunit.slc:112: array index 0 out of bounds

I think playing with DebugSlic=Yes is a good idea. It is the only way we'll ever find all the bugs in the SLIC we've added to the game. My Updater code has been out since last July and I thought it was bug-free until a couple of days ago when Lou pointed out a couple of minor bugs in it.

Actually, I thought Dale had recently brought out a new version of that code. I only play Cradle and never get to the point where there's Air Units, but glancing at the file, it needs:

           player[0]=tmpArmy.owner;   //added 
	for (i = 0; i < tmpArmy.size; i = i + 1) {

because there's no player[0] being passed through the MoveOrder event.

- when I try to disband a city, I get an error

In object MM2_CapitalCaptured, variables 'MM2_CapitalCaptured#tmpCity1' and 'noname' are of different types

and when I click "OK" another message pops up:

In object MM2_CapitalCaptured, function _CityHasBuilding: Wrong kind of builtin variable

I've had that one, too, but I thought it was something I did (because in some other code I'm running, I generate a DisbandCity event) although I never could figure out what. So, evidently not; but we'll have to wait for Locutus to come back and have a look at it.

Now I wonder - have I turned off the error reporting while the error is still occurring in the background? Is there a fundamental problem that is still occurring which is now 'hidden' because of turning off the debug feature?

As I understand it, yes. These bugs aren't really all that serious - like we're not talking about the "Blue Screen of Death" here - and they may only pop up in very rare circumstances, but they ought to be fixed.

This extra intermediate step is understandably difficult to program, but yet is one of the KEY weaknesses to any wargame i've ever played.

I don't suppose any SLIC code could address this?

When I was playing the other day, I had to mount an amphibious invasion and, while organizing and executing it, found myself thinking "Good grief, this would be difficult to program!" I wouldn't really know how to start doing something like this with SLIC because, for one thing, I can't see how you could use it to specify the general conditions under which you would want to launch an amphibious invasion rather than a land one. Clearly, if you're on an island you've got to use ships but there's bound to be tons of cases where you'd be better off going by sea rather than by land and it's this general situation that I can't really think of how to deal with.

[mnbryan37]

AI Attacks

I am playing my first V2.0 game at the "hard" level and have found that the AI will eventually atack my cities, unless I have a defending army near (or bigger than) the size of the attackers. They will "dance around" for some few turns first, but eventually will attack.

Bill

[freestyler]

I am playing my first V2.0 game at the "hard" level and have found that the AI will eventually atack my cities, unless I have a defending army near (or bigger than) the size of the attackers. They will "dance around" for some few turns first, but eventually will attack.

I have noticed that

Can be quite annoying sometimes !