Team Blood Oath Horde Diplomacy

[inamirrordarkly]

Not quantity a quantity of 2 archers, but 2-promo archers, as in archers who have been promoted twice.

[polarnomad]

Indeed... Oops! Thanks for the clarification.

[Kloreep]

Yeah. I'm not sure how few archers I'd accept, but probably no less than 4 or 5 that are 1-promo or less. (Archers cost only 25 hammers, right? So 5x25=125, our stated cost.) If they threw in 1 or more of their archers with multiple promotions, then I might be willing to accept 1 or so less.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Chatting with Plato now.

[UnOrthOdOx]

SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Try this again...
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Hi, you there?
PLATO says:
hehe
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Internet connection got locked up before.
PLATO says:
NP. How have you been?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Busy. Good, but busy.
PLATO says:
Long time since we last came to this little bar...
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Well, I hadn't reloaded MSN since my hard drive crashed as I think you're the only one I've ever talked to here.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:

PLATO says:
haha. I am honoured great sir.
PLATO says:
Are the Mercenaries enjoying the training regimine that the Horde has helped them out with?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Honestly, we are saddened to be in this position. Our goal was never to be forced into war outside of contracts.
PLATO says:
Well...I see your position for sure. Have you guys ever discussed why we might have gone to war?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
We beat you to a city site you wanted for yourselves, the reason was clear. But, since there was no border agreements in place, this can only be considered neutral territory and we had a right to settle there.
PLATO says:
I agree...It certainly was nuetral territory. There is no argument there. It seems that there was a certain resource nearby that was extremely valuable to us and we felt that you sought to deny it to us. You settled without so much as a comment to us. Perhaps a "legal" thing, but surely not the act of one trying to gain our friendship for future business arrangements.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
As your move north to attempt to settle without word could be called as well, in attempt to deny US the closest source of ponies when you already had a source nearby your capitol.
PLATO says:
Perhaps we both erred in not opening discussions on the matter?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
I see nothing wrong with any of that. That is how the game is played. However, you guys decided to start a war on the matter.
PLATO says:
I see. Are you implying then that you do not wish we had started with good relations?
PLATO says:
I must say....This is not the direction that we hoped you would persue
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
We had good relations up to the declaration of war as far as Team Mercenary is concerned. We will also continue good relations once the matter is settled as well. We do not hold grudges or wish permanent harm, as you would expect from a more 'normal' team.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Once war was declared, however, you initiated the self-defense clause.
PLATO says:
Then as it is simply a cost benefit relationship, I would think that as our peoples come in close proximity to each other in the future that we can expect more lines of communication?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
If team Horde wishes a border agreement, Team Mercenary is open to one, yes.
PLATO says:
I appreciate that. We will certainly look forward to working on that once we can agree upon a peace treaty.
PLATO says:
For now, perhaps, it is best to turn toward making that peace.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
I believe I sent you an initial message on that?
PLATO says:
We have reviewed your initial offer. It appears to fail to take into account the price of the material and opportunity that you have already cost the Horde. Be that as it may, we will not be sticklers on that point. We do, however, find that the price of Horseback riding is to grave a price for us to pay. We recognize that The mercenary team has been injured. We hope that you now better..more
PLATO says:
understand our motives. We also recognize the fact that your business would sour with having an equitable exchange.
PLATO says:
We would like you to suggest a possible non-military tech of equal value that we would be happy to trade to you upon completion of research into said tech.
PLATO says:
I will carry any suggestions you have to the council for prompt action
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Is there a non-military tech you guys have in mind?
PLATO says:
To be honest Uno, I haven't a clue what might be an equal value. That is just not my department. If this is an acceptable path for you, then I will be happy to have our interior folks get me a list within a day.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
We would be open to the possibility, but in looking over the tech situation, I am failing to see any that would be expedient to research for you.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
We have also discussed the possibility of acquiring some of your archers as payment, should you be open to the idea.
PLATO says:
Given the proximity of some possible old grudges and a neighbor that is willing to fight for payment, we feel it is in our best interest not to be trading away any military assets or technologies. We do hope you understand our position.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Ah. Well, perhaps some number of turns of Merc protection could be tacked on to such a payment of archers? For, you have a neighbor willing to fight for payment...
PLATO says:
hehe...perhaps. I believe that somewhere in what we have discussed that there is room for peace. It seems that I need to get with my folks and get some hard proposals to you.
PLATO says:
Can we, at this point, agree to a truce while we work on a final status agreement?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Wanting to see how to play the turn I see...
PLATO says:
haha. Merely a coincidence. When I saw bongo's message, I about laughed out loud!
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
SUURE.
PLATO says:
really...
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Very well, I can give you a truce of 1 turn now.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
If no progress is made by the end of that, we will resume.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
If I so much as think I smell you guys are just trying to buy time with this maneuver, I will strongly advocate Team Merc remove you from the game.
PLATO says:
Okay, but let us agree that it will be renewable turn by turn as long as BOTH sides feel negotiations are in good faith. Do not take that as an intention that we wish to drag things out...we wish a quick peace. However, we do wish to return to a peaceful footing asap.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
We wish to return to you hiring us to kick some ass soon.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
As the ole Merc motto goes: Hire early, hire often.
PLATO says:
Uno, let me also say this. The advantage you currently enjoy really would not be as long lasting as you are portraying here. We wish peace simply because we do not want eithier of us to fall behind others. We may actually want to hire you guys in the future and don't want some weak ole culture.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
I never claimed there was any advantage, just that if I feel you guys are just stretching things out, I'ld be all for your removal as opposed to just some payment. Whether we are capable of such a feet or not is beyond the point.
PLATO says:
Haha! Okay, my friend. Then we are agreed that we are under truce in order to finalize a peace agreement. Once the peace agreement is done, than we will move onward to discussing a boarder relationship. Is this your understanding?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Yes, that is the agreement. 1 turn truce, renewable if negotiations continue in good faith.

[polarnomad]

Fair enough. Hope we get some kind of response soon.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Chatting with plato again.

[UnOrthOdOx]

It is becoming apparant in this chat the Horde "gets" the Merc idea...

[UnOrthOdOx]

number in an instant message conversation.

SirUlias@AOL.com says:
You're on!
PLATO says:
Hey There!
PLATO says:
Just walked in the door
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Catching up my pbems.
PLATO says:
hehe...I need to do that myself
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
If you're free, the baby just ate and it'll be 40 min or so before I got to start dinner for the boys.
PLATO says:
I have a few, I think.
PLATO says:
So...Let's make peace so that we can talk business.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Yes, you get my not Sarantium is butting their nose in now?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
note
PLATO says:
yes...it seems that Budda does not love everyone afterall. hehe
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
At least not their current neighbors. We haven't forgot they didn't want us in the game to begin with.
PLATO says:
Excellent. Hopefully we can remind them of that fact for you as we stand upon the ruins of their empire.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Just remember what we say in Team Merc: If we're not a part of the solution, there's good money to be made prolonging the problem.
PLATO says:
Haha. That's a good one.
PLATO says:
Okay...Let's 1st talk peace treaty. You said you guys had explored some additional options?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
You had mentioned non-military techs might be ok. Keep in mind, I do not know what you guys have, but looking at what we'll be needing: Masonry and Sailing. (Sailing is semi-military I guess, not that we're sending galleys at you any time.)
PLATO says:
I was thinking along the same lines.
PLATO says:
Let me check the tech store. Not sure if we have sailing or not.
PLATO says:
Sorry for the slight delay. I need to check the beaker values real quick
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
114 Masonry 143 sailing.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
HBR was 357, I totally screwed that value up in our last discussion by checking an online tree instead of the game...
PLATO says:
okay
PLATO says:
one sec
PLATO says:
I cannot find wheater we have sailing or not
PLATO says:
However, we do have masonry and we can send that immediately. We can send sailing if we have it or as soon as we get it. I do not believe it is currently scheduled for research though. We could however incur a 143 hammer debt to be paid upon completion of sailing or a tech you need of equivilent value?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Well, it would be a 70 hammer debt, as hammers are 2 gold each, but I will ask the team on that point. Trades will not be able to happen for a few turns, but we're willing to settle now and let the trades happen when they can.
PLATO says:
That sounds fair to me.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
May I ask, are there techs which might interest you for straight up trading purposes? It would behoove us to coordinate somewhat for when peace is made.
PLATO says:
Yes, we would love to be able to become trading partners. In fact, I have an idea that might just further the mercenary cause and be very beneficial to us both
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
I gotta hear this.
PLATO says:
Okay.
PLATO says:
Due to our close proximity and the fact that a lack of any type of agreements between us have already produced one regretable war, I would think that team merc would feel necessary to have garrison forces in place and thus lowering the available units for rent to other teams...correct?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Well, you're not the only ones we're worried about, but yes.
PLATO says:
Now, we have a neighbor in the neighborhood that we would both like to see removed and we are going to shortly be discussing some contracts to remove that joint threat
PLATO says:
Asuming that we are succesful in that endeavor then it puts team merc in a highly advantageous position to be able to send units to foriegn lands...assuming of course that you would feel comfortable leaving a smaller garrison at home
PLATO says:
So, here is the contract I am offering. Team Horde will defend your southern and eastern boarders in exchange for a long term "no aggression...no contract against the Horde" agreement. We will, of course, also guarantee no aggression against you.
PLATO says:
From the Horde that is.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Aye, there's the rub. "long term" and team Merc, as a neccessity of our public statements cannot coexist.
PLATO says:
We can work on the definition of long term and some renewable options. We are not unaware of your "retail" commitments
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
I think you guys are the first team to 'get' the concept. And this is my second demogame using it.
PLATO says:

SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Alright. I gotta start dinner for the boys. It looks promising, I'll get back to you via PM as soon as the team sees and comments. Perhaps we should set up a weekly chat or something.
PLATO says:
Okay...Can we assume that masonry and sailing(as soon as we can get....which I am sure I can get us to research next if need be) for peace?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
If you can get it next, yes, we can make that deal here and now. Most the team was for it (everyone that responded). I can ask how they feel about changing sailing to something else or how long they're willing to wait in the mean time.
PLATO says:
We will research sailing next then.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
We have an accord.
PLATO says:
Excellent!
PLATO says:
Peace is good between us. I believe we can accomplish much by working well together.
PLATO says:
Enjoy the boys and your dinner
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Look forward to a long and profitable future between us.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Hey Uno,

Would like to discuss a simple "protect this spot" contract with you when you get a chance.

Thanks!

PLATO

[UnOrthOdOx]

SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Howdy.
PLATO says:
Hello.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
So, how can we be of service?
PLATO says:
Oh..well we had this little mine you see that we wanted protected, but alas...it is gone.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Well, we cannot directly attack Sarantium for a couple turns due to the fact we have certain pre-existing agreements and refuse to ever break deals.
PLATO says:
I completely understand that. Water over the bridge. We simply wanted one of your guys to stand on the mine. hehe
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Wouldn't have done anything. Sarantium could have just wandered over top of us and cut it without declaring war. We would have had to declare war on them, thus breaking our agreement, in order to 'defend' it properly.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Now...there is nothing stopping us from exploring gifting of units to you, however...
PLATO says:
ahh...that's right. I keep forgeting the differences in the new Civ. Was a very convienient time for that agreement with them...particularly when we were in negotiatios about a contract of our own. Is hat the business model?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
It is an OLD agreement, before we began negotiations.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Requires open borders for another 8 turns, I think.
PLATO says:
Oh...okay. I got the impression that you had negotiated it after we had talked. Sorry about that.
PLATO says:
Was a 10 turn agreement, correct?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Let me see if I can find an end date.
PLATO says:
You have to understand...we want to do business, but there is an appearance here of not negotiating in good faith. We WANT good relations so that we can utilize your services, but things must be above board for your concept to work
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
And you must understand that up till a few turns ago, we were at war, and had no one but Sarantium to deal with. Also, keep in mind, we are officially neutral. First come, first serve. Money is money, and all that.
PLATO says:
Don't get me wrong. We understand if you get a contract that is unfavorable to us, but when we are involved in negotiations we wish that they could be concluded eithier positively or negatively before a competiting contract is entered into. No hard feelings on this. We understand your concept. It is just that we want to be able to count on our negotiations with you or there is really no point
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Open borders with Sarantium signed on turn 75, 1040 BC, was 20 turn length, 10 remaining after we hit end turn this turn.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
And if we agree to a contract, it will be fulfilled. But, we won't go breaking existing ones. This is the only one remaining of consequence at this time.
PLATO says:
Fair enough. Let's put that issue behind us and move to the future, okay?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
We expect to be capable of tech trades in 2 turns. 3 at most (cant recall whether it's before or after turn end in 2 turns).
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Do you happen to have an eta on sailing, I know you have masonry already.
PLATO says:
Awesome! I know we are currently researching to fulfill our payment to you. It appears we need a prerequisite tech (fishing, I think). But we look forward to settling our account with you.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:

http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=155125

SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Read up on that, we would strongly like military contracts to follow that format.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Rental of units, not "go kill Sarantium" deals.
PLATO says:
"You know, before we research sailing we have to do fishing
(at our current rate it will take us 18 turns to do both)"

PLATO says:
From our 850BC thread
PLATO says:
We have a copy of that thread in our private forum.

SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Did you already start fishing? Perhaps we can gift that to speed your sailing, you could stockpile gold in the meantime. I'ld have to check with the rest of the team first, though.
PLATO says:
That is an interesting thought. Yes, let me get the comments from our team as well. That might just work.
PLATO says:
Okay...I have two items on my agenda tonight. 1 business and 1 political.
PLATO says:
Political...we would like to begin border negotiations to help stabilize our joint frontiers
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Excellent.
PLATO says:
Business...We are interested in negotiating units for economic raids and pillaging missions (obviously to egin in about 10 turns. )
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
quite possible. Assuming you can meet the payments in 10 turns.
PLATO says:
Indeed
PLATO says:
I have received a request from our General Staff to explore the idea, but am not yet authorized to conclude and implement a contract. At this point, I guess we would like to get an idea of availability
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Um. 4 chariots, 4 axe, 2 spears, I believe would be the list available for rental. Might be a couple more in 10 turns time.
PLATO says:
Okay...and tech trading negotiation starts at 1B=1H/2(Assuming we are talking payment in tech at this point) for 10 turn rental, correct?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Yep, that's the current rate.
PLATO says:
Okay...now, what happens if you have to manuever your unit and you are unable to fulfill the contract in 10 turns?
PLATO says:
Is there a "per mission" type arrangement?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Well, the idea is you would issue orders to us each turn for the 10 turns. We want to avoid contracts that say "attack city X".
PLATO says:
I see. Hmmm... So no "mission" rentals then?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Well...I'ld have to ask the team.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
They worked out VERY badly in the first Team Merc, though.
PLATO says:
For example..."Cut road at square X by turn Y" is not something a mercenary would be interested in?
PLATO says:
Really? Ouch. I would have assumed differently. I see your hesitation.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Yeah, that's the kind of thing I think we're wanting to avoid, for it implies we only get payment when a job is completed, not for risking our units.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Hence the problem in the first team, and the redesign to the current system, which has proven quite effective to date.
PLATO says:
Well...there should be a downside to business. It can't all be upside. We are interested in investing our gold/techs, etc... wisely as well.
PLATO says:
Perhaps extension clauses for unforseen delays?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
I'll ask, but we're currently set up to rent units, provide you with screens, and follow your orders for the contracts.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Yes, extension clauses and pro-rated work should be in the standard pricing thread under 'contract options'.
PLATO says:
Excellent. Do you offer multi unit rental discounts?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
"Pricing is ALWAYS subject to negotiation as well."
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
From the thread.
PLATO says:
Yes, I read that as well. I think we can work well together on this.
PLATO says:
I would imagine that we will want at least two units ready for pillaging missions into Sarantium in 10 turns. I will confirm the exact count that our General wants and get with the Interior minister on available payment. I assume that if we conclude this agreement in time that the units will be on the boarder (or as close as possible given the time frame of the order) and ready to go when the co
PLATO says:
contract time period begins
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Yes, that they will. Any idea which units you will want?
PLATO says:
Sorry, but I really don't. The Khan and his General usually work those items out. I would guess that they will want eithier chariots for speed or spears for survivability as Sarantium seems to enjoy Chariot driving.
PLATO says:
BTW, I assume that all negotiations of this nature are confidential and this type information is not for sale?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
All negotiations are absolutely secret.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
But, agreed contracts will go in our history.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Unless of course, you wish to pay us for privacy there.
PLATO says:
Of course. We understand that confidentiality of that type is a "priced commodity" as well. LOL.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Almost time for me to get the kids off to bed...
PLATO says:
Okay then. We have a framework. I will have firm details for you and an offer for payment for you to consider within 3 turns(Current year 800BC) or we will need to begin again on negotiations.
PLATO says:
almost done...less than 5 minutes okay?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
sure.
PLATO says:
We would like a response within 2 turns so that the contracted units will have time to be in position for their rental period to begin.
PLATO says:
On Boarder agreement...we will have a proposal and would like to see a proposal from you gus within 10 turns...sooner if possible.
PLATO says:
How's all that sound?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Sounds good here. Doubt it would take us 2 turns to get back to you about the contract accepted or not. That's more a 'you got money, good, we're going' type thing.
PLATO says:
haha...cool.
PLATO says:
BTW...Love the pic you are using. From this years front yard?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
2006 Halloween, yep.
PLATO says:
Did you post pictures somewhere this year? I an't recall seeing them.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Transformation of the house starts here, 2006: http://forums.mzocentral.net//index....dpost&p=227751
PLATO says:
Ahh...MZO.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Yeah, it's "not civ related" and I'm not allowed to upload on poly
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
2007 work in progress: http://forums.mzocentral.net//index.php?showtopic=17458

[UnOrthOdOx]

SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Let's try this again...
PLATO says:
haha...okay
PLATO says:
So are you still for hire?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Always.
PLATO says:
Perfect. Let me get my notes from our General
PLATO says:
Okay...what’s the going rate for axemen?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
35 hammers, I believe that's 17.5 gold
PLATO says:
In Hammers I guess
PLATO says:
cool.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Oh, we expect to have Alphabet after ending turn next turn. FYI
PLATO says:
Okay...it seems that we had previously discussed HBR as an item of interest to you guys, correct?
PLATO says:
I believe we were looking at a value of 250? Does that sound correct?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Well, that was incorrect. It's valued a little more in game than on the poster.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
If you know what I mean.
PLATO says:
ahh...thought so. We had had some discussion on that from a couple of memebers.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
That's what I get for running off printed references instead of in game checking.
PLATO says:
hehe
PLATO says:
Okay...what’s the current inventory available for rent?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Looks like 357 from in game.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
All the techs are really odd numbers.
PLATO says:
Yes...it was suggested that with its intrinsic value that I suggest an even 375. Sound okay?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Well, some of the team is concerned about reprocussions and want more defenders than I personally think we need right away, so the list is a bit up in the air. Specifically the spears, what with Sarantium and their chariots.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
But, what do you want and I'll see what we can get together.
PLATO says:
Well...The team need not worry. When we are done there will be nothing to defend against.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
We got some production getting a kick in the pants, so I can probably kick out a few before we need worry.
PLATO says:
Here is the deal. We want the axes, spears, and the chariots on rental with renewal clauses. We will pay with HBR and a settler to be gifted to you post rental. How’s that beginning to sound? hehe
PLATO says:
The HBR we will send as soon as you have alphabet...the settler [post rental
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Hey, I'm happy. I'll ask the team.
PLATO says:
Cool...Now What is the list you sent me the other day?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
4 axe 2 spear, 4 chariot
PLATO says:
perfect. Please begin moving them toward the Saratium Boarder.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Where do you want them delivered if we accept?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Border closest to us, or along the south near you, or do you care?
PLATO says:
That is an excellent question! haha. I will have to get further instructions on that one
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Alright, you PM that to me, I'll get the team going looking that over.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
(And may as well prepare for them to post many a nasty thing in the public forum if it's opened....)
PLATO says:
Also, please confer with your team on the possible availability of units in 10 turns, 20 turns, etc... We would also like to consider renting some of those in advance for you determining our tech path and tech gifted as payment.
PLATO says:
The public forum can be a lot of fun if everybody will act like grown ups. The Horde learned some hard lessons in the last game and we do not intend to let things get out of hand on our part.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
No, I'm sure they'll call us all kinds of names for doing exactly what we said we'ld do from the beginning.
PLATO says:
haha...I think after we are done with this game that everbody will “get” the merc concept.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Then I'll put it in my sig, and get banned, etc etc.
PLATO says:
I am sure that at the first sign of trouble that Ming and Locutus will swarm the place with bannings.
PLATO says:
It may turn into a PBEM! Haha
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Alright, the boss is holerin at me to get to bed.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Borders...
PLATO says:
Okay! Do you know when we can finalize this contract?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
It'll take a few days to get the team to see it, but no more than a turn.
PLATO says:
Ahh yes...Boarders. Send us your proposal. We want a fai boarder for both of us.
PLATO says:
Okay...but no competing contracts in the interim, okay? This is a firm offer.
PLATO says:
---fair boarder---
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Any proposal from us will have to take into account Sarantium existing. We can't 'plan for their demise'.
PLATO says:
Not asking you to. Just want to make sure that the team doesn’t get another offer after this one and not make the decision based on the merits of this offer
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Contracts do not explicitly imply protection. That can be added, for a price.
PLATO says:
Protection?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
I will say contracts will be awarded on a first come first serve basis, though.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
It's not a 'they offered us better so let's do theirs' situation.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
No bidding wars.
PLATO says:
That’s what I was hoping for. Now by “protection”, do you mean “Contract protection” that we could purchase at this point?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
There is a possibility that we allow for "do not attack us for x turns" contracts, yes.
PLATO says:
Ahhh...Interesting. And what is the asking price for these?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
superb question. lol
PLATO says:
hehe...Get back with me on that one. Classify us as “interested” on that contract.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
given the current state of the local diplomatic situation, it's probably fairly high right now.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Had you asked before the current situation, probably a lot less.
PLATO says:
Haha...I can imagine. Of course we would be interested in the multi-contract discount as well.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
First come, first serve, only checks on a contract are:
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Do we have the units, do they have the money
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
It's the only way to be fair and neutral
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Anyway, back to the border for a minute. We are thinking along the lines of a buffer zone of 2 lines, probably 2 tiles apart, one you agree not to settle north of, and one we agree not to settle south of.
PLATO says:
Well...if this series of contracts goes well...then we have a contract to talk about that will give the mercenary team the game. No BS on that. Keep that in mind and we will talk about it later.
PLATO says:
The boarder agreement sound pretty standard. I believe that would work well for us.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
All we want is to be hired in every war in the game.
PLATO says:
Oh you will be...you will be. And you will have more to rent than you can imagine...but that is all for later.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Greetings Team Horde.

When the save arrives, you will find 4 units that have been hired by Team Sarantium. These have been renamed to clearly indicate them as being hired.

Please understand this was an existing arrangement, and never had a bearing on the units being hired to you. They will be delivered in full as agreed upon.

Speaking of units you've hired...

Your units are assembled, and will move out onto the tile 8 of your scout next turn. (unless the Sarantium Archer blocks that tile, which would force us to wait a turn due to the open border deal with them) They will at that time be renamed to clearly indicate their status as Horde-hired units.

If possible, we would like you to send HBR this turn. We understand the deal was "when delivered", and a settler on completion, but due to current circumstances, it will be quite impossible to adhere to that due to turn order, and we are a bit nervous about doing such a large contract on credit.

Once the contract begins, we will provide a screenshot and ask for directions each turn, and provide you with the battle log. If you wish to give general orders (sack town, etc) for us to carry out, we will do so by the most expedient means as well.

-UnOrthOdOx
Team Merc Representative

[Kloreep]

Copying further correspondance here for historical completeness.

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Hi Uno,

Congratulations on your contract with Sarantium. I am sure they will put your units to good use.

I am, however, a bit perplexed at how this came about. We were waiting for you to get back to us from the following:

SirUlias@AOL.com says:
There is a possibility that we allow for "do not attack us for x turns" contracts, yes.
PLATO says:
Ahhh...Interesting. And what is the asking price for these?
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
superb question. lol
PLATO says:
hehe...Get back with me on that one. Classify us as “interested” on that contract.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
given the current state of the local diplomatic situation, it's probably fairly high right now.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Had you asked before the current situation, probably a lot less.
PLATO says:
Haha...I can imagine. Of course we would be interested in the multi-contract discount as well.


I guess we are to assume that there are no contract discussions that are meaningful unless an actual agreement is made then and there.

If you will think about real life...If I was discussing a contract with your company and said I would get back to them on price and the next communication was that I had just made a deal with their number one competitor, how long do you think I would be in business?

The right thing to do is to cancel your Sarantium contract until we can conclude our ongoing talks...we are still waiting on your price.
It will be interesting to see what the mercenary response is and weather or not your concept of an impartial and fair organization will work or not.

Just let me know when you can!

Thanks,

PLATO

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Well, if you're worried about 'who came first'.

Sarantium wished to hire these units more than 10 turns ago. Prior to any discussions with Team Horde beyond the possibilty of ending hostilities. They were told they must wait for us to honor the in game cooling off period, prior to it being initiated, in fact, but we had a verbal agreement that didn't specifically state we had to declare in-game peace. Even so, we made them wait.

So, in truth, you are incorrect. Sarantium hired us first in this little scenario. Yes, it is possible for us to agree to a no-attack contract. In your case, at this time, no it is not possible. We cannot and will not break the Sarantium contract no matter how much you would give us. Now, for reasons of confidentiality to Sarantium, we could not disclose this until now. Pricing on such a thing will be determined on a case by case basis. For you, now, it would technically be possible in 11 turns time, when our contract with Sarantium is finished. If you are interested in a price for it at that time, we can discuss that.

So, to recap:

Sarantium hired 4 units. You then asked how many could be hired when and were told, you hired those.

We have dealt with you both on equal footing, as we have stated from the beginning.

You declared war on us, razed a town, we returned to neutral status and even have negotiated a contract in good faith. This is further evidence of our neutrality. By our defense clause, we could have taken you from the game, for it allows us to declare any price for violating our neutrality as you did. We negotiated as fair a price as possible.

However, you are right about one thing. Negotiations are only negotiations until a deal is final. We do not go about reserving units because someone asked first or delaying action because we're in discussion, only when these deals are final. This is the only way to be fair.

Hire early, hire often, and you avoid all problems with us.

You were not early enough in this case.

Sarantium forgot to hire often and have let their open borders agreement lapse, hence we areallowed to be hire by you against them. Unless, of course, you wish to cancel that deal now. We are ready to move your troops out, do we still have a deal?

UnOrthOdOx
Team Mercenary Representative.

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
The inevitable: "I'm gonna tell" PM:

So basically you just lied when you said you had no deals even under discussion with Sarantium.

I see. We trusted your words. If those units are in fact rented to Sarantium then I am afraid that we will have no choice but to reveal the chain of events and conversation logs to any potential customers.

We trusted your word. You still have time to honor it and I urge you to do so. I actually like the mercenary concept, but this kind of deception will make it unpalatable to me in any future game.

As I stated...we consider ourselves still in negotiation and are awaiting your price quote on a non-attack treaty.

Frankly Uno, on a personal note, I have about had it with the DG concept. The negotiations with you were actually stimulating and enjoyable...it started to renew my hope. However, if deception is going to be the word in this game then I think I have had it.

All I am asking is that you be fair and I have quite a bit of evidence that this "transaction" would be anything but.

Sorry.

PLATO

Response:

So basically you just lied when you said you had no deals even under discussion with Sarantium.

If you will go back and read, you will find this was never stated. In fact it cannot be stated. All negotiations are strictly confidential.

I told you we had old agreements with Sarantium. This is true. I told you contracts are awarded on first come first serve basis. This is true. I told you we are open to the possibility of 'do not attack' contracts occuring. This is true. For the next 11 turns for you, however, that is not possible due to existing contracts.

I see. We trusted your words. If those units are in fact rented to Sarantium then I am afraid that we will have no choice but to reveal the chain of events and conversation logs to any potential customers.

We trusted your word. You still have time to honor it and I urge you to do so. I actually like the mercenary concept, but this kind of deception will make it unpalatable to me in any future game.

As I stated...we consider ourselves still in negotiation and are awaiting your price quote on a non-attack treaty.

Frankly Uno, on a personal note, I have about had it with the DG concept. The negotiations with you were actually stimulating and enjoyable...it started to renew my hope. However, if deception is going to be the word in this game then I think I have had it.

All I am asking is that you be fair and I have quite a bit of evidence that this "transaction" would be anything but.

Sorry.

PLATO

Technically it's against poly rules to post private messages on a public board without permission. I hereby give you that permission if you wish to make this public. Keep in mind, WE OURSELVES were going to make the fact you hired us despite Sarantium hiring us first public. I bid you go ahead. Our negotiations with you are merely proof we are willing to be neutral.

We could not be entirely open with you, due to the fact we cannot disclose the fact we had contracts and/or negotiations with Sarantium. So, yes, we were 'hiding' this fact by not telling you. Something you asked us to do for you, in fact. It works both ways, as you are now discovering. It's the only way Merc team can work. This is not deception, it is abiding by our public statement and should be expected. No, we cannot tell you if or when we have negotiations with another team. However, nor will we tell them when we negotiate with you.

Now then. We have your units ready to move. Do we still have a deal?

-UnOrthOdOx
Team Mercenary Representative.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Goodbye Uno.

Please contact Paddy about the existing deal. I am resigning. I have had enough of the bullcrap. I can tell you that I will never participate in a game where there is a mercenary team that double crosses people like you do.

quote:
Plato says:
Don't get me wrong. We understand if you get a contract that is unfavorable to us, but when we are involved in negotiations we wish that they could be concluded eithier positively or negatively before a competiting contract is entered into. No hard feelings on this. We understand your concept. It is just that we want to be able to count on our negotiations with you or there is really no point
UnOrthOdOx says:
Open borders with Sarantium signed on turn 75, 1040 BC, was 20 turn length, 10 remaining after we hit end turn this turn.
UnOrthOdOx says:
And if we agree to a contract, it will be fulfilled. But, we won't go breaking existing ones. This is the only one remaining of consequence at this time.


We based our entire strategy on trusting you. Congratulations on a well played betrayal. I must say, you fooled me. I actually trusted you.

Plato,

I have never once lied. The open borders was the last agreement with them that impacted our ability to hire to you as I stated. You are receiving the contract you signed, in full, as presented from the beginning, should your team wish.

This is not double crossing. Double crossing would be agreeing to something and not following through. We cannot divulge contracts with other teams until certain times. You asked the same of us. This is a fact. If I had previously told you a no-attack contract was unavailable, it would have revealed this, breaking that confidentiality. Imagine Sarantium should contact me this afternoon and ask to extend the open borders deal. Would you have me tell them "no we can't, we've been hired against you" prior to the contract actually beginning?

If you have a better idea of how to handle such a situation, I would love to hear it. I am always looking to improve in this area. Personally, I see no other way to maintain neutrality and the confidentiality of the Sarantium contract.

I will be sad to see you go.

Paddy,

I need to know the status of our deal. We are prepared to move the units out, as agreed to. Do we still have a deal?

-UnOrthOdOx
Team Mercenary Representative