Gathering Storm Embassy

[N35t0r]

My thoughts:

They were worried that we might be planning on moving against them with the nanas, and acted paranoid so that we'd have to confirm or deny their worries.

I agree with bT that they are rushing to ellies. I propose we analyze skipping sailing and fishing and head straight for Machinery...

In any case (research or pop Machinery), we should plop down a city in site #6, for extra commerce. I doubt we will get more than one or two cities from the nanas, and I don't think we should keep any more than their capital.

Also, GS will be doing maths. We might want to get that tech before we get machinery, in order to make a better use of forest chops.

Also:

[04:28] [nye] if i could assure you that the other continent is 3 civ, and GS cares not much for the fate of nana, what would your response be?

Either they 'forgot' that there's 7 teams, or they've already met the 4th team (Mercs on an island is my guess).

[binTravkin]

I propose we analyze skipping sailing and fishing and head straight for Machinery...

As I said in the other thread, if we research it now and then turn out to pop it, we'll have wasted our research, also as GS proposes to trade Masonry and we need it soon, we could fill the gap between now and GE with Alphabet - I even think there will be enough time left to catch Fishing and probably even Sailing before GE pops. At least my opinion is that before we undertake such a long tech as Machinery, we should have enough to build and we need lighthouses for that spot #6 city to be effective.

I agree, that if we dont pop Machinery with GE, we should immediately pop out one or two (add spot #1) settlers for increasing our commerce.

I doubt we will get more than one or two cities from the nanas, and I don't think we should keep any more than their capital.

I think we should keep everything we can get

The southern city is a pain, it's in a very good spot and has gems under it, leaving it to GS aint the best thing to do.
However, with jungle there's chance they already have gems available.

Also, GS will be doing maths. We might want to get that tech before we get machinery, in order to make a better use of forest chops.

Yeah, was my thinking too.
Another reason to take on Alphabet now.

Either they 'forgot' that there's 7 teams, or they've already met the 4th team (Mercs on an island is my guess).

Indeed, seeing 'assure' in that sentence makes me think they've got the knowledge somehow.
Mercs being on island sounds pretty logical both from their unique game concept and that their two latest cities are coastal (which puts some pressure on GL ).

[Impaler[WrG]]

I agree we should get cracking on the GL soon, possibly before the Collosus or imediatly when avalible. If we go Alphabet (Trade) -> Fishing -> Sailing we could still start the GL at around the time the GE is done. But this would preclude major unit production in Beiging.

I like the idea or re-directing the Bananas towards Monarchy.
If they dont yet have pottery (unlikly) by the time we get alphabet they will not see the metal casting. Storm deffinatly will though. We may be able to sooth Storm at that point by sharing our plans and promising a gift if they co-operate. Or we just plead secrecy for its own sake, we feared that if we were seen as getting too powerfull we would be ganged up on.

Which brings up another point, once we have Chuks not only are we in a position to decimate Bananas we are also able to withstand an all out Bannana-Storm combined attack if they were to allie against us. Spearman can stop Elephents and the Chucks will kill any Melle and devistate the stacks even if they losse. Though this is a remote possibility I think it speaks to getting our Military advantage as soon as possible by poping rather then researching Machinery.

[binTravkin]

Well, we have the military advantage as-is already as our production is some 1/3-1/4 bigger than both of them.
Next turn Tassagrad starts working both the mine and pasture bringing it to a whopping 9hammer total and throwing high in the graphs.
Seeing how Bananas are pretty weak as is and GS only has one city until now, I dont see them thinking they can beat us even if cooperating.
We're also the only one of the three to have Iron Working..

Looking at the GS current weakness and our constantly growing research and production potential, I think that should we decide so, we might even be able to take on GS..

And we better not give them the idea to gang upon us - we must be as friendly as possible to eliminate such possibility.

I think, if we get Pyramids, GL should follow right behind (and Colossus should be finished by the time too), probably assisted by a chop or two and a whip (hopefully we have maths by then).

[N35t0r]

Blake is in GS. nye and Krill are pretty decent platers, I wouldn't underestimate them.

Also, Ellies have +50% vs melee, IIRC... spearmen aren't the best option vs. them..

[binTravkin]

They have +50% with mounted

[N35t0r]

ah, right. just LIKE spearmen.

[binTravkin]

But spearmen have 100% with mounted
Okay, okay, Im being annoying, I know, it's time to sleep..

[PJayTycy]

a possible timeframe for GS techs :

4000 Mining
4000 Wheel
3720 (*)Mysticism
3160 (*)went for early religion but switched to Hunting
2920 Archery
2440 Bronze Working
2160 (*)Agriculture
1880 (*)Pottery
now Writing

The (*) are uncertain.
Anyway, going for an early religion and then switching research after the founding of both of them ( in 3360 and 3440), seems the only explanation for their long period of no breakthroughs.

If this is true, they only have pottery for a few turns and they are NOT using their financial threat. It also clearly shows we are much closer to a writing breakthrough than they could possibly be.

(posted here instead of in Foreign Intelligence, because I don't want discussion in there)

[Senethro]

Sounds like they're preparing for war to me. Ellie/cats is an incredible favorite of mine.

If we want to be friends then I think we should meet their strength.

[binTravkin]

As CT said, they made a gamble and lost.

That Agriculture seems pretty late, it's strange that a civ takes no effort to develop its resources around capital (and Im pretty sure they have at least something that could be worked either by AH or Agriculture) if only they have something to improve with hunting, like a deer or ivory resource (which would correlate with the version about construction).

Also, taking on Archery so early, before having much to improve around themselves seems strange.


Knowing that they have only one city yet, this tech report makes things look even stranger about GS..

[binTravkin]

Do you think they're preparing to rush Bananas?
The graph doesn't show them having a lot of troops..

[PJayTycy]

bt, as said, I'm not sure about the order of the *-ed techs.

But, GS grew in the beginning, so they didn't start with a worker like we did. If you have no worker, it's not so usefull to research Agriculture. Also, they already had mining.

That aside, the order could also have been:
4000 Mining
4000 Wheel
3720 (*)Agriculture
3160 (*)went for some tech but switched to Hunting
2920 Archery
2440 Bronze Working
2160 (*)Pottery
1880 (*)Mysticism
now Writing

but this seems less likely to me, especially because Agriculture-Pottery-Writing is a straight research line.

[binTravkin]

Im not questioning your list PJay, I think the first is the most probable order too, Im rather thinking why they chose such a techpath and why they had no worker for so long (do we even know they have worker now?) and why they researched seemingly useless techs like Archery before those that are crucial for early growth.

[Mart]

Archery may be a tech that gives you good city defense relatively fast. Sometimes it is a problem to get iron or copper to make spearman, swordsman or axeman. Something might rush them to get archery (barbs?)