Banana Embassy

[Maniac]

Thanks for the insights.

To get back to the latest banana message, what do you feel about a minimap trade? I'm indifferent.

[ForesterSOF]

A mini will give them terrain to find us but resources will stay hidden.

The swap sounds nice ; however, if they want to conquor us early it would be a bad idea.

I would stay with the original plan to devide the land.

[Maniac]

Original plan?

[ForesterSOF]

Draw a line in the sand without any swaps.

[N35t0r]

ehm, they know where our capital is, will giving them minimaps be that much of a deal?

[Maniac]

Daddy-O has replaced Platypus Rex as diplomat btw.

Hello new Banana diplomat,

Re city borders, that would be desired indeed, as far as possible. To make sure achieving this is easy, how about a one-tile no-city-build zone on both our borders?

Regarding a minimap trade, we're currently discussing this. I hope to get back to you soon.

Greetings,

Maniac of Centauri

[Maniac]

Oh boy oh boy, looks like the Bananas are making a 180 degree turn regarding their stance. A message from their new diplomat:
(My bolding)

***

Sheng-Ji,
During our diplo conversations, I understand that we
might slip into character and our 'nations' may or may
not have harsh words for eachother. I want you to
know that if this happens, none of it is personal. To
try to be clear about this I will address you as
Maniac of Centauri and I will sign as "Daddy-Musa"
-Mark

now on to the game...
----------------------------
Greetings Maniac of Centauri,
It is my pleasure to meet you. Trust that I speak
with the full authority of our Banana Republic. I
trust that you do the same for the Alpha Centurians.

We look forward to a long and enduring friendship
between our neighboring nations. I am sorry if we
gave the impression that we wanted to draw a line in
the sand and set borders. We believe it is too soon
to do such a thing. The darkness still crowds both of
our lands. Let's not make promises to things that we
do not fully understand.

Team Banana proposes that our nations agree to respect
eachothers' borders as these naturally expand through
time. Team Banana understands that as our nations
grow and the darkness is peeled back, there will be
disputes over borders, but that as friends we can
discuss and work these out in peace.

Team Banana looks to the Alpha Centurians with the
hope of a long term friendship and eventually an
alliance.

Team Banana would like to start building this
friendship by discussing ways that we could share
technologies and co-operate in the research of new
tech's. What are your thoughts on this?

Back to the borders. As friends who are mutually
trying to discover our world, what are your thoughts
on allowing open borders to allow peeling back the
darkness and starting trade?

Again Team Banana looks to you as friends. To show my
joy in being assigned to work with Alpha Centuri I
baked a banana walnut loaf for you to share with your
people. If our friendship grows as I suspect it will,
I will forward the recipe.

May the Banana protect us and bring us joy,
Daddy-Musa

[Maniac]

Looks like they realized fixed borders is not in the advantage of their Creative trait. I'm wondering if their change of diplomat is perhaps just staged to prepare their 180° turn. Good cop bad cop stuff etc.

I'd suggest to wait with a reply until next turn, when we know how close there's copper near us.

[Maniac]

Seeing we have copper near us, we could have a tougher tone in diplomacy I assume. Reactions/suggestions to this draft message?

***

Greetings Ambassador Daddy-Musa,

The pleasure to meet you is likewise. However I should mention first that my name is not Sheng-ji. For that is the name of our Yellow Emperor, carrier of the Mandate from Heaven Sheng-ji Yang. I have sent along a portrait of his Majesty so that if you wish you can pay the usual honours to him every morning and evening.



I'd like to reply to certain parts of your most recent message.

"We look forward to a long and enduring friendship
between our neighboring nations. I am sorry if we
gave the impression that we wanted to draw a line in
the sand and set borders. We believe it is too soon
to do such a thing. The darkness still crowds both of
our lands. Let's not make promises to things that we
do not fully understand."

Please do not treat us like fools. It is the Banana who proposed setting boundaries right after first contact. This message is a 180 degree turn from all previous Banana statements. If there is a specific reason you do not like the equal-distance red border line we proposed in our earlier message, please state so. We are always willing to discuss some other border arrangement that suits both our needs. However if you continue with your current policy change, and just leave us in the dark as to the reason why, know that it will make the Banana look like an unreliable partner. Likewise unannounced land pushes in each other's directions is destined to lead to unnecessary tensions between our realms.

In reply to other issues mentioned:

Seeing the current Banana stance on border agreements, it would probably not be wise to share our exploration information via a minimap trade. Hopefully thay stance will change in the future, for Alpha Centauri wishes only friendship with the Banana, and would look favourable upon an Open Borders agreement, once this becomes possible.

Regarding technological coordination or cooperation, this would be useful indeed, once possible. If there is enough thrust, perhaps we could share our immediate plans to avoid unnecessary duplication before someone researches The Alphabet?

We have also considered the matter that both our realms have Industrious leaders who prefer to build large projects to demonstrate the magnificence of our empires. As a consequence, more than others Stone and Marble are important resources for us. However this does not need to lead to tensions - to the contrary, it could lead to more cooperation. Being Financial we are likely to have other technological and world wonder priorities than you. So for instance if we only had one marble and one stone in our vicinity, one of us could lend the resource to the other if he wants to build a certain wonder, and then return the favour another time.

I hope you will consider these possibilities,
May the Banana and the Way be compatible,
Maniac of Centauri

[Googlie]

Shouldn't it be:

If there is enough trust thrust, perhaps we could share our immediate plans to avoid unnecessary duplication before someone researches The Alphabet

Apart from that minor mod, I like the reply

[-SafaN-]

[Impaler[WrG]]

I find this section a little Harsh, we dont need to sound rude or reveal our hand too soon, the Bannans have scouted the Area ware the copper was and they will see it as soon as they get BW (perhaps a realization that their Copper deficient and we arn't is the cause of their resent 180?). Always speak softly and carry a Big stick (or in our case Ax), rather then a threatening tone we would be better off simply anoncing we have located a nearby source of Copper.

Please do not treat us like fools. It is the Banana who proposed setting boundaries right after first contact. This message is a 180 degree turn from all previous Banana statements. If there is a specific reason you do not like the equal-distance red border line we proposed in our earlier message, please state so. We are always willing to discuss some other border arrangement that suits both our needs. However if you continue with your current policy change, and just leave us in the dark as to the reason why, know that it will make the Banana look like an unreliable partner. Likewise unannounced land pushes in each other's directions is destined to lead to unnecessary tensions between our realms.

I would rewrite it as so...

We find this statment odd, was it not you who originaly proposed setting a border upon first contact. It is hard for us to see how this is a misinterpritation or over-eagerness on the part of your earlier diplomat, rather is seems a genuine shift in your position, a 180 degree shift to be more precice. In my experience such shifts in policy are legitimate and inevitable as the situation developes but if others are left in the dark as to the reason it leads to speculation which harm mutual trust.

Perhaps you found our proposal (or perhaps the land on your side of said border) lacking, if so we are open to negotiate borders based on Equal-Area rather then Equal-Distance and for for these negotiations to wait till more of the map is scouted. We do belive their is danger in waiting too long on an agreement or allowing borders to come into contact haphazardly. Can we mutualy agree to not make any landgrabs across the proposed border for the first two expantion cities with deadline to have a fully agreed upon border before the 3rd expantion of either side?

Also the Section

Seeing the current Banana stance on border agreements, it would probably not be wise to share our exploration information via a minimap trade. Hopefully thay stance will change in the future, for Alpha Centauri wishes only friendship with the Banana, and would look favourable upon an Open Borders agreement, once this becomes possible.

I would change too...

In regards to the Mini-map trade. AlphaCentaui was favorable to this and consider it the first step in border negotiations. But with the percived shift in your position away from negotiations in this aree we see no benifit for us in an exchange as it would nolonger be stimulating meaningfull negotiations. Hopefully that stance will change in the future, for Alpha Centauri wishes only friendship with the Banana, and would look favourable upon an Open Borders agreement, once this becomes possible.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
trust thrust

I always confuse the two.


Personally I like your message much better Impaler. Remember, if you or anyone else wants to be main diplomat, just say so.

***

Greetings Ambassador Daddy-Musa,

The pleasure to meet you is likewise. However I should mention first that my name is not Sheng-ji. For that is the name of our Yellow Emperor, carrier of the Mandate from Heaven Sheng-ji Yang. I have sent along a portrait of his Majesty so that if you wish you can pay the usual honours to him every morning and evening.



I'd like to reply to certain parts of your most recent message.

"We look forward to a long and enduring friendship
between our neighboring nations. I am sorry if we
gave the impression that we wanted to draw a line in
the sand and set borders. We believe it is too soon
to do such a thing. The darkness still crowds both of
our lands. Let's not make promises to things that we
do not fully understand."

We find this statement odd. Was it not you who originally proposed setting a border upon first contact? It is hard for us to see how this is a misinterpretation or over-eagerness on the part of your earlier diplomat. Rather it seems a genuine shift in your position, a 180 degree shift to be more precise. In my experience such shifts in policy are legitimate and inevitable as the situation develops but if others are left in the dark as to the reason it leads to speculation which harms mutual trust.

Perhaps you found our proposal (or perhaps the land on your side of said border) lacking. If so we are open to negotiate borders based on Equal-Area rather than Equal-Distance and for these negotiations to wait till more of the map is scouted. We do believe there is danger in waiting too long on an agreement or allowing borders to come into contact haphazardly. Can we mutually agree to not make any landgrabs across the proposed border for the first two expansion cities with deadline to have a fully agreed upon border before the 3rd expansion of either side?

In regards to the Mini-map trade. Alpha Centauri was favourable to this and consider it the first step in border negotiations. But with the perceived shift in your position away from negotiations in this area we see no benefit for us in an exchange as it would no longer be stimulating meaningful negotiations. Hopefully that stance will change in the future, for Alpha Centauri wishes only friendship with the Banana, and would look favourable upon an Open Borders agreement, once this becomes possible.

Regarding technological coordination or cooperation, this would be useful indeed, once possible. If there is enough trust, perhaps we could share our immediate plans to avoid unnecessary duplication before someone researches The Alphabet?

We have also considered the matter that both our realms have Industrious leaders who prefer to build large projects to demonstrate the magnificence of our empires. As a consequence, more than others Stone and Marble are important resources for us. However this does not need to lead to tensions - to the contrary, it could lead to more cooperation. Being Financial we are likely to have other technological and world wonder priorities than you. So for instance if we only had one marble and one stone in our vicinity, one of us could lend the resource to the other if he wants to build a certain wonder, and then return the favour another time.

I hope you will consider these possibilities,
May the Banana and the Way be compatible,

Maniac of Centauri

***

Some questions & comments:

What does "haphazardly" mean?

I like the suggestion re two cities before deciding on a border. That would allow us to get the copper and marble.

Just a minor suggestion, I'd leave out the italic part, and just leave it at "Alpha Centauri was favourable to this."
In regards to the Mini-map trade. Alpha Centauri was favourable to this and consider it the first step in border negotiations.
Reason is we proposed a border before a minimap trade, so we'd be inconsistent.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Yes I agree that would sound inconsistent on our part, how about


In regards to the Mini-map trade. Alpha Centauri was favourable to this and consider it a step in the negotiation process. Our first proposed border was based on the minimal information we had, better proposals can be made by both sides with more information. But with the perceived shift in your position away from any negotiations at all in this area we see no benefit for us in an exchange as it would no longer be stimulating meaningful negotiations or border proposals. Hopefully that stance will change in the future, for Alpha Centauri wishes only friendship with the Banana, and would look favourable upon an Open Borders agreement, once this becomes possible.


haphazardly was a diplomatic euphomiszm for competitive land grabing which is the situation we want to avoid due to the Banana's creative trait, too much grabing on thier part might force us into a war.

[Maniac]

Message sent with this modification