Gathering Storm Embassy

[Impaler[WrG]]

Ther latest response a positive reply to my earlier message and an interesting rumor about the Bananas.

**********************************

I offer greetings to Impaler[WrG] as the chief Diplomat of the Royal court of the One Yang.

The people of Gathering Storm welcome the opportunity to develop fruitful relations with Team Alpha Centaurians.

Everything is open for discussion with us. Good borders make for good neighbours is an old saying among our people. Map exchanges are always an interesting topic for discussion. The benefits of trade are ever-present in our thoughts. Technology exchanges could be quite useful and we welcome discussion of the possibilities.

Our communications with the Bananas have been difficult in that there has not been much. We understand their predicament though as rumours have reached us of unheavals among them (too bad several members have left).

On behalf of Gathering Storm, I welcome the opportunity to discuss matters of mutual benefit with Team Alpha Centaurians and Banana.

Regards
nye

**********************************

I'll be sending them a package of more detailed proposals soon, revealing some tid bits of information about our more peacefull strategies and our techs and asking them to recipricate. Borders probably wont come into contact with us if their very far south.

[binTravkin]

Regarding tech proposals - we should at first say, that we're in uneasy situation trading tech with GS as of now, as we have struck a deal with Bananas. Should something go wrong, or GS have a tech Bananas cannot offer, we'd be happy to do a fair exchange.

We shouldn't tell what is the deal with Bananas just yet, maybe ask them if they agree on publishing such info?

[N35t0r]

We should ask GS if they would be interested in a 3-way tech deal with the nanas.

Also, I think map-trading should be a high priority.

[binTravkin]

3-way tech deal could encourage better relations between Bananas and GS, which does no good to us, if we plan to attack.

Maps - yeah, but we should agree what maps we trade - full maps with resources or only bare ones from high in the sky (so resources are not spottable).

[Maniac]

Which members left from Banana??

[binTravkin]

I dont think they left physically, they just lost interest.
At time there was only Platypus Rex, now there are Daddy-O and fed1943 who seem to be active and I saw one other banana active lately, dont remember the name tho.

I suspect that might be due to personality of Platypus Rex, the teamleader.
The few times I got involved in discussions with him, he seemed very passive in talking and sometimes made irritating statements.

[N35t0r]

Originally posted by binTravkin
3-way tech deal could encourage better relations between Bananas and GS, which does no good to us, if we plan to attack.

Maps - yeah, but we should agree what maps we trade - full maps with resources or only bare ones from high in the sky (so resources are not spottable).

We should ask them if they would be willing to. I'm seriously wondering they might want to rush the nanas. Their reply will give us a bit more idea on where they stand with respects to them. It also makes it sound like we're cooperating with the nanas, and intend to do so into the far future. (thus throwing them as far away as possible from our intended course of action)

If indeed they agreed, I don't think that negotiations will be finished before we are ready to attack the nanas anyway. We can allways stall a bit, trying to probe possible GS interest in us switching as a trading partner with them.

I know nye will at least push the idea of a 3-way alliance a bit, as it is much superior, if we intend on killing the other side, as a 2-way or even 1-way island. This might also hinder any possible warplan they might have (ensuring we get the juiciest nana targets)

If they all-out refuse the possibility of a 3-way tech deal, then it's most probable they intend to kill the nanas, or batter them into submission, way before either of us discover writing, as otherwise they'll end up with the shorter hand.


Long-term, I believe that we should strive to kill the nanas, getting their best cities to ourselves, and ally with GS versus the other (hypotetical 3 - 4 continent split) continent. Contacting early is the key, so we can find whoever has drawn the shorter stick. In the situation above, I'd expect 2 teams ganging up on the third, with the Mercs sympathising, but not overtly supporting, the 1 team.

I can almost assure that Sarantium and The Horde will be on opposing sides, unless they have no other choice (this last thing stressed quite a bit), and that the mercenary team will be as hostile, if not more, towards The Horde than Sarantium is. I guess everything falls on them 4 being on on the same continent.

I can envision a 3 - 1 - 3 split, with the mercs in the middle and possible coastal acces to either continent through their island, as well, in which the result on the other continent highly dependant on Vox being swayed to either side or remaining neutral, or a 3-2-2 split (unlikely)

[binTravkin]

and that the mercenary team will be as hostile, if not more, towards The Horde than Sarantium is.

Doubt mercs will be hostile to anyone themselves, they've been ranting about this 'misunderstanding of the merc concept' for several times.
From the other side, Horde might be interested in grabbing a chunk of them, but I expect, the Mercs will be the hardest nut of the three (Vox, Sarantium and Mercs).
I also doubt horde would go attacking GS, even if they find each other to be nearby - mansa is just too good vs ealry game rushes.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I've just concluded a rather fruitfull negotiation with Notyoueither, we were rather open with each other and I think we learned quite a lot. Here is the log which is followed by my analysis.

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[nye] hi
[nye] i discovered an old install of mIRC. doesn't require registry entries, so it works
[Impaler[WrG]] and you made a private channel nice
[nye] i just double clicked on you. so private, yes.
[Impaler[WrG]] thanks for seeing me on such short notice
[nye] not a huge problem. is there something pressing?
[Impaler[WrG]] not realy, just the team is eager to get things moving
[nye] same over here.
[Impaler[WrG]] first let me ask just how much lee-way you have as diplomat with your team?
[nye] a little bit, but less than a lot. and you?
[Impaler[WrG]] I generaly compose our formal messages and then the team reviews them, their amended and sent
[nye] i can do a bit more than that
[nye] i can steer, but i can't force. i can come to agreements much like the american president, but they have to be ratified
[nye] i have some lee-way
[Impaler[WrG]] In this session I'm authorized to reveal various bits of info - mostly what we already told the Bananas, we can come up with tenative agreements but they will need to be ratified
[nye] i also have to take into account what the wishes of my team are before i discuss an issue, or we end up with absurdities that will not be ratified
[Impaler[WrG]] So are you the formal leader of your team?
[nye] i'm the 'captain' and the head diplomat. the grand poohbah is someone else
[Impaler[WrG]] I wonder.....
[Impaler[WrG]] well our teams currently got a rather informal leadership structure, a handfull of core member with no outright leader
[Impaler[WrG]] I'm one of the more active but have no more athority then anyone else
[nye] same here, but activity tends to lends authority so long as one has a good grasp on the team's desires
[nye] you wonder....
[Impaler[WrG]] true, DG's definatly reward activity
[nye] yes
[Impaler[WrG]] who your leader is... is it a secret?
[nye] No secret. Stormbringer
[nye] or do you mean President or some such?
[nye] the Grand Poobah is the turn player. What he/she does defines reality.
[Impaler[WrG]] well just the player who has the greatest influence on your overall game strategy, kind trying to make predictions and all
[nye] can't say that. there are too many. how about youse?
[Impaler[WrG]] well our overall long term strategy was hashed out rather early and agreed upon by everyone, the turn player realy dosn't have much lee-way
[nye] we sort of jyst bumble along, but there are a lot of us doing the bumbling
[Impaler[WrG]] and the short term strategy is hashed out by the group in various 5-year plan type proposalys
[nye] sounds very organised
[Impaler[WrG]] ok shall we proceed into some of the negotiation topics
[nye] sure
[Impaler[WrG]] except for Tassadar *wink
[nye] i don;t have very long though, so we might cover highlights and then resume on a later date
[Impaler[WrG]] ok what should we start off with, lets discuss geography
[nye] i used to be good at geography.
[Impaler[WrG]] We dont know much about the area to the south of our scout, we assume your territory is to the south?
[nye] yes, and we assume you are to the North
[Impaler[WrG]] actualy due north is Banana territory, have you not actualy come across their terriritory, aka your contact was scout-scout
[nye] actually, we see their cap quite clearly. it is our ne. i take it then you are more west
[Impaler[WrG]] yes the land mass extends westward and were their
[nye] i figured so
[nye] we didn't though
[Impaler[WrG]] be carfull though if your planning on scouting that way theirs a barbarian near the coast
[nye] thanks. what sort of barb?
[Impaler[WrG]] killed our starting warrior with a hostile native pop
[nye] those are bad
[Impaler[WrG]] yea our scouting was curtailed for some time
[nye] so, you said that you and banana have known each other for a long while, and that you are freindly
[Impaler[WrG]] ok well it dosn't sound like our territories are likly to ever come into contact, the area to the south of the Bananas is not claimed by us
[Impaler[WrG]] not likley I mean
[nye] then borders are easy.
[Impaler[WrG]] yes the Bananas scouted us and we've been friendly with them
[nye] if so, then you maust have some framework for cooperation. we would like to know how we could fit in
[Impaler[WrG]] we have some plans for tech exchange with them, but were open to expanding this into a 3way exchange
[nye] we like the sounds of that
[Impaler[WrG]] Your Civ is also financial correct
[nye] yes, and very defensive. fin-spir with skirmishers
[Impaler[WrG]] Mali isn't it?
[nye] yes
[Impaler[WrG]] yes Mali is one of my favorites
[nye] mine too.
[Impaler[WrG]] have Bananas asked/invited you to do tech trading as well?
[nye] our discussions with them have been disorganised. they are disorganised. i am not sure what exactly we have discussed
[nye] especially since key members of their team have left the game
[Impaler[WrG]] I can tell you that we and the bananas exchanged knowlage of each others techs and future research plans to optimize our trading, would GS be willing to do that?
[Impaler[WrG]] I'd understand if that would require ratification ofcorse
[nye] we would be open to that
[Impaler[WrG]] Could it be done right now?
[nye] could it? yes. should i? probably not. that would be going a little far.
[Impaler[WrG]] ok I understand
[Impaler[WrG]] we can work on doing that in the future
[Impaler[WrG]] ok lets see to trade
[nye] we would like to know, is one of you on the path to tach trading enabling tech now?
[nye] that has an impact
[Impaler[WrG]] yes but it will be quite some time before its ready
[nye] i would guess so
[Impaler[WrG]] are you planning on shooting for it yourself?
[Impaler[WrG]] its a bit early in the game to go for it
[nye] some of the prereps are being discussed
[nye] indeed, it is early given barbs and such
[nye] brb
[nye] as for trade, we are open to it. seems a while off though
[Impaler[WrG]] I can tell you that were doing well technologicaly, between us and Banana when we exchange their wont be a lot of stuff left
[nye] not so good news
[Impaler[WrG]] so If you want to get in on the exchange you will likly have to commit to b-lining what ever we and the Bananas haven't done
[Impaler[WrG]] or else you wont have anything to offer
[nye] is any of this open to negotiation?
[Impaler[WrG]] oh and incase you wondering we practice quid-pro-quo exchange with everyone
[Impaler[WrG]] certanly were open to negotiate tech exchanges with GS either 3-way with the Bananas or direct 2-way directly with you
[nye] quid-pro-quo. could you explain?
[Impaler[WrG]] equal lab points for equal lab points
[Impaler[WrG]] not a "all the techs you dont have" for "all the techs we dont have" style
[nye] i see. why then would the first to alpha trade it?
[Impaler[WrG]] its part of our agreement with Banana were exchanging it and several other techs
[nye] i see. so it is a done deal, and we are late comers
[nye] i'm not seeing how this arrangement helps us at all
[Impaler[WrG]] Its going ahead as of now but if its mutualy benificial you could be included
[nye] we would be interested in something with emphasis on mutually beneficial
[Impaler[WrG]] being financial your long term tech rate is strong so were shure you can have something usefull to offer
[nye] i'm sure we would
[Impaler[WrG]] Its just if you do very "flat" research you likly will just duplicate what we already have as each of us is bee-lining to reduce doubleing up as much as possible
[Impaler[WrG]] Its very possible to extend this to all three teams bee-lining for even greater efficiency
[nye] there are a lot of lines in this game, which i am sure is one of things that attracted AC
[Impaler[WrG]] SMAC still has more style :P
[nye] it would help if i had a proposal to take back to the team
[nye] who does what
[Impaler[WrG]] well were going to be able to sign open borders soon, so consider yourself formaly invited for that
[nye] ok
[Impaler[WrG]] we have a coastal city and if you had one two and explored the full coast stretch between them we could trade
[Impaler[WrG]] and we can exchange a map of our territory for a map of yours
[nye] the coatal cities could be worked towards. trade is good. brbr
[Impaler[WrG]] excelent
[nye] need to go soon
[Impaler[WrG]] ok then pick our last topic if their are any other issues
[nye] we have a lot to consider as is
[Impaler[WrG]] heres a question then
[nye] ok
[Impaler[WrG]] given your explorations is their any more continent to the south
[nye] yes, us
[nye] and ice
[Impaler[WrG]] aka have you found that your piece is it,
[Impaler[WrG]] their arn't any other teams on the continent
[nye] we see ice
[Impaler[WrG]] so I take it it extends very far south?
[nye] not far enough for us. we would like more space between us and banana
[Impaler[WrG]] so our scouts relitivly close to your territory if we keep headed south
[nye] how close are we to yours?
[Impaler[WrG]] rather far away
[nye] where you were when we ended turn...
[Impaler[WrG]] you would have to go north till you reached bananas then head west
[nye] if you go about 5 tiles south of there you start getting into places we regard as ours
[nye] we have reached bananas
[Impaler[WrG]] I belive were in a forest and you scout was just north of us
[nye] we're on the border of their capital
[Impaler[WrG]] theirs a river a bit to west, its the rough border between us and bananas
[Impaler[WrG]] in the sense we claim the land west of it
[nye] ok
[Impaler[WrG]] so you and bananas have not worked out a line of seperation between your lands yet?
[Impaler[WrG]] like some kind of 38th parrelel
[nye] from where your scout is, a little south you reach a banana city. beyond that we regard as ours
[Impaler[WrG]] realy a banana city south of our current scout !? thats very far from their capitol
[nye] yes, we noted it is quite far
[Impaler[WrG]] humm I see why your concerned about being squeezed territorily
[Impaler[WrG]] their Creative as well to boot
[nye] indeed
[nye] yes
[Impaler[WrG]] well I hope your able to grow none the less
[nye] we'll be ok.
[nye] have to go now. getting late and have to work
[Impaler[WrG]] no wild animals or things like that we should be cautious of
[nye] behind us? probably. a woddsman eats up jungle pretty quick
[Impaler[WrG]] the barb you need to avoid was last seen in the desert, steer northward and you should be fine
[nye] s of us you hit trees, then jungle. be careful of the panthers
[Impaler[WrG]] and Tigers
[nye] yes. and further south you might see the odd bear. damn *#!@'s
[nye] is there any chance you could send us a proposal re tech?
[Impaler[WrG]] we had managed to avoid one of thouse earlier, Bananas did not head our warning and got eaten
[Impaler[WrG]] a proposal for what you should reserach in order to have something we need you mean or just a listing of what we have?
[nye] the first is more useful, the second if you wish.
[Impaler[WrG]] well I can say right now that Monarchy and all of the stuff following Alphabet are things we would be looking to aquire in the future
[nye] ok. let me know if anything else strikes you
[Impaler[WrG]] k, anything your looking for?
[nye] for now? sleep.
[nye] i have a few things to do and then turn in
[Impaler[WrG]] haha, ok try to get aproval to do an exchange of know, and planned techs
[nye] ok
[nye] btw, do you have a log of this chat?
[Impaler[WrG]] lets plann on another such chat next week
[Impaler[WrG]] maybe a bit earlier
[nye] ok. do you have a log?
[Impaler[WrG]] I was just going to copy paste it when were done, I'll see if I can send you a copy by -mail
[nye] thanks\
[Impaler[WrG]] ok would you like/prever the next chat to be 3 way assuming I can set that up?
[nye] it would be good if you could set up 3way for the weekend
[Impaler[WrG]] k I'll see what I can do
[nye] ok.
[nye] c'ya
[Impaler[WrG]] bye



*********************************


Key facts learned/Infered:

The land mass extends southward all the way to the pole so theirs quite a lot of land their.
The bananas have a city to the south which is encroching on Storms percived heartland, this could be exploited as a source of division between them and gives Storm a reason to partisipate in a mutual attack.
Storm dosn't sound like its very organized or using very cunning strategy, the turn player Stormbringer is the primary player. I suspect Blake is not a major contributor.
Their eager to trade tech and he seemed worried about being left out.
Storm feel the Bananas are disorganized and likly now have the impression we are highly organized further enhancing their view of us.
Their open to trade, coastal seems to best way considering their distance, we should have our scout explore along the western coast as it heads south to get an un-interupted coastal link.



PJay-edit-note: changed all > and < into ] and [

[binTravkin]

well were going to be able to sign open borders soon, so consider yourself formaly invited for that

We shouldn't offer open borders to anyone just yet.
If someone feels our cruel intentions when we come to it, it's as simple as parking a warrior next to Beijing or Tassagrad to check what we're building.

well I can say right now that Monarchy and all of the stuff following Alphabet are things we would be looking to aquire in the future

Monarchy sounds interesting but takes Priesthood/Monotheism to get.
Im wondering, what's so interesting after Alphabet. Except the b-line of Drama->Philosophy pop, Maths -> Calendar/Construction/Currency seems a more beneficial route.

In fact they must be fast enough in tech to research Alphabet almost as quickly as we'd do, seeing their GNP, thus we could strike a deal about something 'after Alphabet' and add Alphabet to it as Bananas are not likely to do it for us if we attack.

[PJayTycy]

nice chat

sometimes it's kind of hard to follow who said what though (most part is obvious ofcourse)...

The bananas probably settled around the horses and stones tiles down south, on the coast if our intelligence is correct. Maybe on the gems tile ?

They don't really like the bananas I wouldn't mind a "banana capital for AC, banana second city for GS" war-plan. Although nye mentionned they are very defensive.

[binTravkin]

I wouldn't mind a "banana capital for AC, banana second city for GS" war-plan.

I wouldn't mind it too, but only if there's no other choice.
When it comes to endgame, we might be needing every bit of land and resources we can get.

Maybe on the gems tile ?

Could be, especially as CT pointed out, they have it with hapiness that is not connected with the capital.

sometimes it's kind of hard to follow who said what though (most part is obvious ofcourse)...

Yeah, I was wondering too, doesn't mIRC have user-tags like

<Impaler>: hi

[Maniac]

The forum removes all text between ><. Trick around that is to copy the log into Wordpad or something and use the Replace function to change the >< into [] brackets.

Originally posted by binTravkin
We shouldn't offer open borders to anyone just yet.
If someone feels our cruel intentions when we come to it, it's as simple as parking a warrior next to Beijing or Tassagrad to check what we're building.

When signing open borders, we could simply agree it's for the trade benefit, and not for military passage.

[binTravkin]

The forum removes all text between ><. Trick around that is to copy the log into Wordpad or something and use the Replace function to change the >< into [] brackets.

Wonder why you say it.
If you look in the source, you'll see I specially put entity symbols there - gt and lt signs respectively.

When signing open borders, we could simply agree it's for the trade benefit, and not for military passage.

[N35t0r]

Originally posted by Maniac
The forum removes all text between ><. Trick around that is to copy the log into Wordpad or something and use the Replace function to change the >< into [] brackets.



When signing open borders, we could simply agree it's for the trade benefit, and not for military passage.

Or using the code tags.


Regarding Open Borders: to that.

Parking a warrior or scout next to another person's captial is very hostile, anyways, so it probably won't come up.

We need to talk to the nanas about their thoughts on including GS on the trades...