Realms Beyond's History of the Demogame

[sooooo]

Very good! I think one aspect that could deserve a short paragraph in chapter 10 was the economic reasons for wanting peace with either templars or imperio: trade routes. Our economy got crushed by the double war declaration and we crawled to nationalism (as banana will testify!). Once we got peace with one of the teams our trade routes to banana and rabbits returned and our economy was resuscitated.

[dsplaisted]

Also in my recollection, Banana was researching Gunpowder and we were going to get it from them. However right at the same time we got Imperio's peace proposal, they traded Gunpowder to Banana. This meant we would have to research it ourselves or get it from Imperio (and we weren't very happy with Banana over this). This was one of the main reasons we felt forced into the peace deal.

[Donovan Zoi]

Also in my recollection, Banana was researching Gunpowder and we were going to get it from them. However right at the same time we got Imperio's peace proposal, they traded Gunpowder to Banana. This meant we would have to research it ourselves or get it from Imperio (and we weren't very happy with Banana over this). This was one of the main reasons we felt forced into the peace deal.

Cmon, guys. Do we really need to drag this through the mud again?

I too was surpirsed to see that detail left from the archives, but I'm cool with leaving it out.

[ruff_hi]

Looking back on the game, reading some other team's posts and discussion wth other players, I think the following is the best indication of what happened with Templar ...

That move announced a cold war from my team's perspective, one which we could long sustain, but at the price of economic development and expansion. You can see that beautifully when you check the curves.

The problem lies in a belief-system that creates a deadly trap. It works that when you see the enemy grow more powerful and you expect to be his target, that you have no choice but to do the best you can to deter him by keeping up in power. However, by doing that you inevitably leave the initiative and control over the process in your enemy's hands. For every unit he produces you will have to do the same, no matter how high the long-term cost, since you can't afford to get invaded.

Templar started a cold-war against Team RB back on turn 40 (or there abouts) and we didn't even know it ... we just went on merrily building settlers, planting cities and growing while I can image the following happening in the Templar threads ...

"RB just founded a new city, we need settlers and workers to catch up."
"No - this is a cold war - we need units ... build more units"

[Krill]

That is a common misconception of how civ has to be played. Higher level players will know exactly when they can get away with less units, even when at war and your enemy is bringing troops in.

But it is also generally true. It is basically why a growth first strategy is always going to be a wiser option in a demogame: combined with knowing when you don't have to build units, it opens up oppurtunities to grow even while focusing to some extent on units.

Bluebell fields, or Green Acres is a perfect example. By affording the two settlers for those two cities, you managed to grab Taj, and get a pretty solid draft city, which was enough to enable killing Templars and having enough units to take out all of Imperios' stack, thus winning the continent to yourselves. Without either city I doubt you'd have won...

[Sullla]

I'm planning on mentioning that the Imperio/PAL Gunpowder trade was a mistake in the next page (which will be on the whole "Backstab" situation). This section was focused on the diplomatic switching of sides, so for the moment I didn't want to bog down the narrative there with explaining both sides - I wanted to convey what our team was feeling. And Imperio didn't send us Gunpowder in recognition of their error - nor did they ever explain what had happened to us! - so I don't exactly feel sorry for them.

Also, Donovan and Banana are getting an entire page devoted to them, which is why I've been skipping over that side of the diplomacy thus far.

I think I will go back and add one more sentence about the importance of trade route income; I did talk about that in Part 8, but it could be emphasized even more. That and make a couple of Swiss' corrections.

[theViking]

Really cool Sullla!

sunrise089 would you be able to make a screen shoot of the whole map?

[Sullla]

Part 11: Operation Backstab

Getting close to the end now, just two more parts to go. Incidentally, I'd shed a tear for Imperio in this part... if I didn't feel that they got exactly what they had coming to them.

[sooooo]

More. The baying crowd demands more!

[Sullla]

Never let it be said I don't respond to requests.

Part Twelve: Bananarama
Part Thirteen: The End?

And that's it, finally got this thing done. It was a lot of work, but I'm happy with how it turned out. If anyone has something they would like to add, let me know and I can probably squeeze it in.

[regoarrarr]

In part 12,

* Realms Beyond offers a 1000 beaker credit in return for Banana not trading for Feudalism with Imperio

That doesn't sound right - Imperio took Feud with the oracle, right? Maybe templars?

[Sullla]

Yep: not trading FOR Feudalism. (Banana could have traded Machinery to Imperio for Feudalism. Instead, Donovan researched Feudalism himself and traded it to us for Engineering.)

I think that part is correct, actually.

[Donovan Zoi]

Yep: not trading FOR Feudalism. (Banana could have traded Machinery to Imperio for Feudalism. Instead, Donovan researched Feudalism himself and traded it to us for Engineering.)

I think that part is correct, actually.

That's how I remember it, though it would probably be less confusing if the credit was tied to our withholding of Machinery from Imperio. But I recall that our researching Feudalism played a big part too, or your team would have been left to research yourselves (it also would have blown the trade we were setting up for Engineering).

As for Part 12, I actually joined Team Banana with 4 cities intact and the Iron hooked up (hope that doesn't change your mind about the NAP again... ). I'll hopefully have time to start posting the "10 Moments" tomorrow in countdown form....I have several sections partially written. Sorry I couldn't have posted more sooner, but I think it would have just created more work for you!

[theViking]

Never let it be said I don't respond to requests.

Part Twelve: Bananarama
Part Thirteen: The End?

And that's it, finally got this thing done. It was a lot of work, but I'm happy with how it turned out. If anyone has something they would like to add, let me know and I can probably squeeze it in.

I am sorry that our diplomacy was so bad; but when I took over as turn player I had never play a MP game before and I just wanted to stop PAL and build a defense that they could not easily bypass. When Banana declared war on PAL I wanted to retake Eisenburg to take the iron away from them.

[ChrisiusMaximus]

I think your turnplaying did a lot to stop Pal in their tracks Viking,

A team with their advantages should have been able to clean us up but your tenacity made it appear too costly to them, of course having the bananas to their south also made them cautious.

Now if someone somewhere had traded or gifted us feudalism then we could have done more about Pal maybe even have taken the fight at them more effectively ! our UU would have negated Pals charriots.