Turnplayer Thread No. 6

[Zeviz]

I've just checked and Caravels can't pillage. So let's go back to minimum science.

Also, maybe we shouldn't train any more workers, especially if we'll be able to keep the ones we've just captured from Imperio.

PS Let's give Acre to Banana as soon as we can, so we will not have to pay maintenance for it. (Even when city is in revolt, it increases civic upkeep and number of cities maintenance in other cities.)

[Swiss Pauli]

PAL has ended their turn, so they're only Imperio left to play. I offered Rabbits Literature for their World Map (but don't expect them to log in again this turn).

Had (yet) another look at Frozen Clams. Swapped from Barracks to cheap Theatre: we can whip this turn for 2 pop which will get rid of the striking citizen, and add 1 to the happy cap so he will not strike next turn either. Overflow should complete Barracks the following turn, putting us back under the happy cap for a few more turns.

Following the worker steals, I set Red Herring to a Barracks and growth to size 6 in four.

If sooooo is OK with these build changes, then I think he should log in and whip the Theatre at FC as we don't want to get caught out by Naldo ending the turn unexpectedly early.

EDIT: set research back to 0%, seeing as caravels can't tear up nets.

[sooooo]

Hmm, that could work. Whipping a theatre with the 50% whipping penalty gets 45 hammers, which is 20 hammers of overflow to finish the barracks. That's +3 to the happy cap and -1 for 10 turns, but one of the citizens we whip away is on strike anyway.

I still actually like a worker from red herring. There's no guarantee we get the 3 workers we just stole and even if we do I think we want more anyway.

[sooooo]

We could speed up oxford by 2 turns by switching from cottage to plains hill at A1 but there's no point IMO. We get a GS in 8 turns (well, 90% chance anyway) and therefore cannot research anything until then so we'll be at 0% research for 8 turns anyway (the current eta for oxford is 8 turns). The only thing oxford would boost during those 2 turns is the scientists from the GLib but that's not worth the starvation or not working a cottage.

(I whipped the the theatre at FC too).

[sooooo]

I've been trying to think how to improve our economy. Here's my suggestions:

1. Not whip Mellow Yellow and Red Herring for workers. Yes, I know it was my suggestion to do that in the first place. But methinks those cities need to grow and keep working their cottages. Also not whip other cities like CB or Saxon.

2. Build more cottages. Zeviz is right here. I don't mean at our new cities, since those cities need to be whipped pretty hard for granaries, forges, lighthouses and libraries. Our new cities need to get their food and mines up and then that's probably OK until those buildings are done. I mean at the established cities. Here's my suggestions for more cottages:

Two more at something fishy on the grass/jungle tiles.
Plenty at China Beach
Plains cottages at Mellow Yellow
Plains cottages at Red Herring
One more at Pink Dot (for now)

3. Capture Lakhamba asap.
I know, I know . We can move the non-cat troops in the stack at Calakmul 1N, bombard with the cats and cover them with the other troops that are a turn behind. With those troops and the oromos that will approach the city from the SW, we can probably take Lakhamba cithout any catapult support. We'd lose troops yes, but think of the troop upkeep savings and the fact that we have shrine income earlier.

4. Build a bank at Pink Dot. It would get us +15 gold currently at 0% science. I think we should do this by whipping, not by mines. We go max-cottages and grow into unhapiness then triple-whip it. Then work the cottages again as we grow.

5. Get the forbidden palace quickly. We can whip the courthouse with 1t to go at Jerusalem to get overflow into the wonder. Also we can chop the riverside forest for it.

Recommended worker actions:
Yojojo and Bernard cottage the tile 2E of China Beach. This can be a staging tile and they can cottage the grass 1N of this tile the turn after.
Helmholtz cottages the roaded plains forest at Red Herring. This gets the courthouse quicker and builds a cottage too.
Hugs farms.
Bob roads (as the sign says).
Max finishes the road, then Parsons and John go a-stone quarrying.
Winston finishes the sugar at Sweet Tooth.
Erik and Nok Tok put 2t into their sugar, the turn after it can be finished with the help of Winston.
Syme and Dave start a cottage 2S of Pink Dot. As well as being a good tile to cottage, this is a nice staging tile for the workers to head to MY or SF to build more cottages.
If we raze Oxhuitza and the 3 capatured workers aren't retaken, two of the 3 workers we capture go onto the gold hill and the other heads south. If we don't capture the city then they need to move more careful.

[Sullla]

Imperio continues their disappearing act for another turn, which I suppose is good news for us. Well, they'll be finished off in about 10 turns and then we won't have to worry about them anymore.

After I finish up my work for tonight, I'll log into the game and get some updated pictures and thoughts on the situation.

[Sullla]

OK, first let me say that I agree with sooooo's assessment of our economy and suggested worker actions. Yes, our economy is in pretty terrible shape at the moment. Don't worry too much about it - we're going to get a lot stronger with time. Keep in mind that we captured Jerusalem only 13 turns ago. In barely a dozen turns, we absorbed the entire Templar empire and half of the Imperio one. Our costs are close to their maximum right now, while we're not getting the benefit of our new cities yet. As we grow our new cities, build infrastructure, and lay down more cottages and tile improvements, the situation will get much better, and then we'll be all but unstoppable!

In the meantime, sooooo's suggestions are pretty good. I also like the idea of Bank at Pink Dot, since I think we're OK on soldiers for now. And since we captured five workers recently, we can let our cities grow rather than whip them for a greater work force. As far as capturing Lakamha... well, we can manage it in about five turns, by my estimate. See below...

Let's start with the military situation in the north:



Somehow there is now a longbow in Oxhuitza despite Imperio not logging in at all last turn. The only way I can figure this out is Imperio having unit auto-moves queued up, which is a big no-no in a game where they can't move units in the first 24 hours of each turn! Anyway, I don't think it's a big enough issue to protest or reload or whatever, but Krill, if you're reading this, please try to make sure Imperio isn't circumventing the clock rules with unit goto orders. Thanks.

Anyway, we can kill the Imperio galley with our trireme and may as well do so. We will obviously attack and burn Oxhuitza with our Mounted units; the cuirassier gets 69% right now, and that's without adding a second promotion, so hopefully we can do it with no losses. (Should be about 75-78% odds with Combat II, which is pretty good.) The question is what to do after that; I see us having two alternatives. The safest play is to send the rest of our Mounted units south to join in the attack on Lakamha. This is probably also the best way to do things.

The risky play is the one outlined above; I'm not even sure if I'd recommend it, but want to point out the possibility. If we go this route, we move all the Mounted units to the hill tile where Oxhuitza used to stand. We also move our injured curiassier that captured the workers last turn to that same spot. Then we move the new cuirassier at Cape Town + the injured cuirassier south of Chichen Itza to the forest tile 2E of Chichen Itza, and move the captured workers onto that tile as well. On the next turn (T174), we move the Sentry horse archer to the tile indicated, and peek into the garrison at Uxmal. If it looks like we can capture the place, we move all the Mounted units forward (they can all reach that tile with a road on the forest tile, 5 horse archers + 3 injured cuirassiers + 1 healthy one). We then attack and capture Uxmal on T175, moving up our Oromos to guard the city in the process. We can even get 2 Oromos into the city on the turn it's captured, if we move them correctly on T174.

The key question is risk. Do we think it's worth it to try and grab Uxmal quickly? Like I said, the safe play is just sending our Mounted units down south to join in the big attack at Lakamha. The value here is that we kill Imperio quicker, getting the war over and done with and allowing us to concentrate on our economy and going after PAL. It's also worth pointing out that the Statue of Zeus is in Uxmal; does anyone know if capturing the Statue cuts accumulated war weariness in half (?) I can test that if we think it's worthwhile. War weariness is hurting us badly, so that's another advantage of this more risky plan.

Tell us what you think of the idea, especially those with MP experience (sunrise and maybe Speaker?) I wouldn't suggest this, except that Imperio has kinda checked out of this game, and doesn't seem to be paying much attention right now. (EDIT: Oh, and Imperio has no iron, so they can't whip a pike to defend. Worth noting, although they could whip a musket.)

OK, down in the south, here's the current situation:



There is still a longbow and a pike on the tile 1S of Calakmul, since Imperio never logged in last turn. We can kill the longbow with a Drill IV Oromo (95% odds), then the the pike with one of our two maces next to Calakmul. We can then move the extra Oromo and elephant up one tile north to cover the exposed mace.

Elsewhere, we want to move the big stack on the hill tile NE so that it's next to Calakmul, and obviously our cats bombard this turn, etc. There's no need to get hasty and try to capture Calakmul this turn; doing so doesn't benefit us in terms of moving on Lakamha (which I'll explain in a minute). sunrise, we do NOT want to put any units this turn on the hill tile 1E of Damascus. Any unit that can't reach Calakmul this turn should simply stay in Damascus. Here's why:



I've drawn in the "true" borders of Lakamha, to show what we'll be facing next turn. Next turn we capture Calakmul, and every unit that didn't attack, plus every unit in Damascus, can move to the T174 tile so marked. This is why we don't need to rush units forward this turn; it doesn't get us any closer to Lakamha, thanks to the way the cultural borders work. The important thing is that our two workers (Aidun and Hercules) build a road on the cattle tile next turn. There isn't really anything for them to do this turn, unfortunately. I'd just move them onto the tile with the big stack 1SW of Calakmul, to be safe.

By doing things this way, we move a very large stack of units towards Lakamha immediately next turn and they can be outside the city by T176. Depending on the defense inside, we either take one turn to bombard or capture immediately, so the city will be ours on T177 or T178. That's four or five turns from now, best I can see without risking unnecessary losses. And if we choose not to go after Uxmal, we'll have Mounted reinforcements coming in from the west to help out too.

Well, those are my recommendations. We're doing pretty good in this war so far; we should raze Oxhuitza this turn and capture Calakmul next turn, and that takes Imperio down to a mere 3 cities. Looks like we'll finish off Imperio before PAL takes down Banana, so things are looking good on the grand strategic level.

[LiPing]

does anyone know if capturing the Statue cuts accumulated war weariness in half (?) I can test that if we think it's worthwhile. War weariness is hurting us badly, so that's another advantage of this more risky plan.

I am fairly sure it does not (including if you burn down the city with the statue in it), every time I've captured it off people, my WW hasn't dropped.

[sooooo]

Looks good, I think I prefer the plan to attack uxmal with the mounted troops. We won't need them for Lakamha.

I think we work the sugar at Jerusalem and whip the courthouse next turn, getting max-overflow into the FP.

We got another point of WW at Pink Dot (now +4) so even with the theatre build we are unhappy. I set the city to Bank. I think we should quadruple-whip this city. That's 180 hammers, so we can do it in 3 turns. Once we whip, the next turn we'll be at size 6 so the city can still work most of the cottages.

[Krill]

If I can make one suggestion...photobucket for screenshots?

[Swiss Pauli]

I think we should take a look at Uxmal at the very least.

No more drafting for us until Rifles: we have more than enough Oromo already. Speaking of Oromo, the wave of units at Constantinople should head directly for Lamakha. There's a nice hilly route there, so we don't risk many - if any - losses en route.

Rabbits accepted the trade. Banana has been gifting heavily, so we should let them know when we'll be completing Optics, so that they can line up some fishing boats to harpoon Whales to trade to us for Dyes/Sugar/Wines.

[Krill]

I know I asked for a pause to investigate this, but I suppose I should offer to let the game continue and play advantage to you, if you feel that the current situation favours you compared to if Imperio did break the rules and I ordered a replay without such moves.

I'll still be checking to see what Imperio did, mind.

[Sullla]

Personally, I'm fine with just playing on. I'd rather not deal with the bother of trying to reload and whatnot. Since Imperio's been missing turns (NMRing?) we've gotten enough advantage as it is. Just make sure it doesn't happen again is all.

But others on the team may feel differently.

[Krill]

Play on then.

[mostly-harmless]

I am fine with playing on. Lets just hope it does not happen again.

I a also support the plan to scout/attack Uxmal with the 2movers.

Are we all on the same page wrt gifting Acre to Banana? This is planned for this turn, right? Banana move after PAL? Or do we have to gift in the first 24hours?

mh