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**Dreylin** · August 2, 2009, 13:57

Banana moves before PAL

**Swiss Pauli** · August 2, 2009, 15:49

Donovan posted that he couldn't play today until around 6pm EST. The uploader is disconnected, so can sunrise sort that out around that time tonight to try to catch up with him in game to do the business at Acre?

**sunrise089** · August 2, 2009, 19:30

Turn 172

City Report:
*Airstrip 1 - Oxford due in 7.
*Pink Dot - Theater complete. Bank due in 23.
*China Beach - Courthouse due in 4. Cat on hold.
*Cape Town - Cuirassier complete. Another Cuirassier due in 2.
*Something Fishy - Islamic Missionary due in 6.
*Green Acres - Islamic Missionary due in 15.
*Mellow Yellow - Bank due in 168.
*Saxon the Beach - Islamic Missionary due in 1.
*Bluebell Fields - Bank due in 30.
*Red Herring - Worker due in 10.
*Upper Burgundy - Barracks due in 3.
*Frozen Clams - Barracks due in 3.
*Jericho - Cat due in 5.
*Jerusalem - Courthouse due in 2.
*Jungle Fever - Granary due in 41.
*Sweet Tooth - Granary due in 11.
*Constantinople - Granary due in 3.
*San Sebastien - Granary due in 49.
*Chichen Itza - Granary due in 61.
*Damascus - Forge due in 60.
*Acre - Granary due in 61, though we won't keep the city.

Worker Report:
*Captured Worker 1 and Captured Worker 2 moved into the forest 2E of Chichen Itza to road next turn, but Captured Worker 3 (yes, I named them that) moved onto the road network since he isn't needed to road.

Domestic Military Composition Report, defensive units in blue, offensive units in red, other units in pink:
*Chichen Itza garrison - 2 Oromos
*Jericho garrison - 1 archer
*Constantinople garrison - 1 Oromo
*Damascus garrison - 1 Oromo, 2 maces, 1 Pike, 2 Longbows, 1 cat, 1 GG chariot
*Acre garrison (for Banana) - 3 maces
*Northern strike army - 4 Cuirassiers, 2 Oromos, 5 horse archers
*Southern army -
-->Wave 1, outside Calakmul - 10 Oromos, 3 elephant, 3 maces, 2 pikes, 6 cats, 1 chariot
-->Wave 2, advancing via hills south of Lakamha - 5 Oromos, 1 cat
-->Wave 3, in transit - 5 Oromos

Enemy Military Composition Report:
*Imperio southern troops: 1 Cuirassier, 1 pikes, 2 longbows, plus one musket in the open.

Military Action Report:
*Calakmul's defenses are down to 8% Lovely to attack a city without walls.
*Santa Maria (trireme) attacks Imperio's galley at 77% and WINS.
*Cuirassier attacks longbow at 74% and WINS AND RAZES THE CITY!
*I moved our northern units according to Sullla's Uxmal plan. I also discovered these workers:

Spoiler:

I did not capture them however because we know Imperio has a pike in the area, and the only follow-up I could use next turn if Imperio killed our wounded Cuirassier would be Oromos attacking into a forest, or our only healthy Cuirassier.
*Oromo attacks Imperio's longbow in the open at 94% and WINS.
*Mace attacks pike in the open at 99% and WINS.

Spy Report:
*Probably time to consider building a spy for the Imperio campaign.

Questions and notes:
*San Sebastian and Something Fishy both expanded borders.
*No drafting this turn

*I offered Acre to Banana. Whenever Donovan logs in he should accept the trade, then an RB player should log in and gift the macemen and then Donovan should move them into the ships and end turn, after which we can end turn as well. Can someone send an email to Donovan asking for his ETA?

**Sullla** · August 2, 2009, 23:19

Alright, well the Uxmal plan is going to need some minor adjustments because Uxmal actually has reached the 60% culture mark instead of the 40% one (I was going by the borders in the north, but our scouting there was out of date). We can still get all units into position next turn, just going to be a little riskier in the path that the late-arriving units have to take. I'd like to wait for Imperio to move (or not move, heh) before doing any more planning there.

Here's an updated picture of the south, with our unit movements and Banana's razing of The Warning:

Aside from the massive strategic benefits, the razing of that city clears out a huge amount of PAL culture in the Channel. Now Calakmul won't be hopelessly culture-crushed, and we'll be able to get the fish resource and have visibility on PAL's western coast! (There's another plan here in the works, but we have to get rid of Imperio first.)

To get across just what a devastating blow this was for PAL, here's a list of the infrastructure that was in their capital:

The Warning: Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, Forge, Confucian Temple, Obelisk, Harbor, Confucian Monastery, Taoist Monastery, Christian Monastery, Grocer, University, Christian Temple, Bank, Academy, Oxford University

All of that, gone in an instant. Coastal capitals are powerful, but you have to be VERY careful about guarding them once the age of galleons arrives! The Bureaucracy + Academy + Oxford + Library + University + triple Monasteries + Harbor + Great Lighthouse trade routes combination was practically pulling the entire PAL research effort by itself. Look at the new PAL GNP reading for evidence of this:

Last turn that was about ~650! Right now, with our civ researching at min science and burdened with huge maintenance costs, we are almost within striking range of PAL running max science (266 vs. 366). Just imagine what will happen when we get our costs under control and turn on research...

OK, let's look at strategic big picture. PAL's hope for winning the game was to pull ahead on research and gain an insurmountable technological lead - and they were doing a damn good job of it too. If they could get to rifles and grenadiers two dozen turns before anyone else, they could put a serious hurting even on us. But now, that looks increasingly unlikely. Their ally Imperio is going down in flames, they are losing trade routes left and right, and PAL lost their uber researching capital. They needed to crush Banana quickly and get set for the lategame showdown with us. However, Donovan is doing a great job of holding out, and although he's still likely going to go down, it's going to cost PAL an enormous price in blood and tears.

The macroeconomic numbers are enormously on our side. Look at the disparity in Food - we're pulling in almost half again what PAL is! PAL! The team that was so far out ahead in population for the first 150 turns of the game! The F8 victory screen has us at 35% of the world's population and PAL at 25%. Since population = power in this game, we are steadily moving towards a dominant position here. With our massive advantage in land area (DOUBLE anyone else!), and growing edge in population, things are starting to tilt more and more towards RB. Just need about 10-20 turns to finish off Imperio and consolidate our position, then....

Well, apologies for getting a bit overly triumphant, but things are really looking good for us tonight in this game.

Attached Files

**sunrise089** · August 2, 2009, 23:30

@Sullla - Question: PAL lost their capital, but they automatically get a new capital. That means a palace + bureaucracy move into Thebes. I assume Thebes also has at least a library. And some of the towns The Warning was working can be worked by other cities now as well. So I guess I'm curious about how much PAL can catch up by building Oxford and some monasteries in Thebes.

**ruff_hi** · August 3, 2009, 00:41

log of chat after Banana team goes and rips PALs heart out

...

Spoiler:

**Zeviz** · August 3, 2009, 01:14

Originally posted by LiPing View Post

I am fairly sure it does not (including if you burn down the city with the statue in it), every time I've captured it off people, my WW hasn't dropped.

I've had the opposite experience. (WW decreasing as soon as I captured Statue of Zeus) However, that was well over a year ago (the previous AW epic), so things might have changed in a recent patch. If nobody has more recent experience, we should test this out.

EDIT: And I completely agree with Sooooo's economic plans. The only change I would make is prioritizing Courthouses even ahead of Forges. (Build order of Granary->Courthouse->Forge in all cities) We are #1 in production now, but city maintenance is our biggest expense, so (discount) Courthouses are more important than forges.

**mostly-harmless** · August 3, 2009, 02:10

I think sooooo mentioned to stop drafting for now and let our cities grow a bit. I fully agree. Checking in game, we drafted 26 Oromos and built zero!

That's a lot of population points tied up in draftees.

With Thebes now the capital, PAL gets a lot more hammers with the Bureaucracy bonus than before, but lost out on commerce. 4 towns/villages are not workable at the moment around the ruins of The Warning. PAL will probably re-settle this area soonish.

As for Oxford, they would have to built two new universities first, I believe, with Giza and The Warning gone. And they are running out of good production cities to do it.

mh

**regoarrarr** · August 3, 2009, 08:56

So did we end up giving Acre to Banana or did he move his 1 galleon before we did that? If we did not give Acre, I would think that we would keep it at this point?

**Dreylin** · August 3, 2009, 09:16

Screenie above shows us still having it, but with The Warning gone.

BTW, from the disputes thread it seems like Donovan's scouting of Thebes actually distracted PAL and lulled them into a false sense of security at TW ... masterfully played!

**ruff_hi** · August 3, 2009, 09:24

here is a quote from PAL ... wahhhhhhhhhhhh

Originally posted by Indiansmoke View Post

Ok if it is not he one that was near Thebes then we were outplayed and it is game over pretty much.

Krill please check if what Bannana say is correct, if it is, well done Realms, congrats, see you in the next game.

**Krill** · August 3, 2009, 09:25

How many cities do you guys have now? I think I count 20 but I'm not sure...

PS. Don;t you dare call that a loaded question!

**ruff_hi** · August 3, 2009, 09:27

oh oh - seems that Krill is going to start gifting our cities away. Or is there some secret number of cities that mean the barbs win (like Next War and nukes)?

Edit: if you count the cities in the report a few posts above, you will get 21 - well, that is what I got when I counted.

**sunrise089** · August 3, 2009, 10:07

RE: Acre - I offered the gift but Donovan didn't need it and so he turned it down.

RE: # of cities - We have around 21. We also have around 14 coastal cities that are going to need about 3 defenders each in 2 turns

EDIT: @M_H - We can still draft Green Acres, right?

**mostly-harmless** · August 3, 2009, 10:16

Originally posted by sunrise089 View Post

EDIT: @M_H - We can still draft Green Acres, right?

Yes, yes, of course. And we will keep on drafting if we feel we need more troops. I just think that 24 Oromos ought to be enough to deal with Imperio and I would love to see some of our cities grow back a bit.

mh

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