Turnplayer Thread #3

[mostly-harmless]

What is our estimated time for settling?
I am wondering what Templars would actually do if they see us farming.
They will have to start getting more culture into Jericho to fight for the cows. I think instant 30h for Twin Peaks is worth the few turns forewarning Templars will get.

mh

[sooooo]

Well I don't think we actually confirmed which city we are settling first. I am tentatively with Sullla for red dot. To be honest, I don't see the immediate need for two settlers instantly. We have a lot for our workers to do. In the south project colossus has built up a backlog of work to do at all four cities. In the north we have lots of work to do at Bluebell Woods.

I think we should build the settler from Green Acres as planned (triple whipping). Then we should be fine with just growing the city to size 6 again and triple whipping the second settler. I see no need to involve Something Fishy in this whipping. The city's tiles don't make it an obvious whipping station whereas Green Acres is only good for whipping. Something Fishy does not grow back all that quickly and I think should just build a barracks and grow. The workers will soon catch up with the growth once they get back.

I don't think we should commit a worker just yet to farming that forest, there must be something better he can do. I would probably have O'Brien work in the north somewhere (roading?) and send Syme back to Pink Dot.

As for Winston - why does that mine tile need a road? May as well send him of to Bluebell Wood IMO.

[regoarrarr]

Another good reason for farming the yellow boxed tile is that (when we get to it), we can chain that irrigation north to the plains tiles that are in cape town's BFC (on the west side of the gulf)

[Zeviz]

We still have a shortage of cottages in the south. So I'd send one worker there, while the other worker starts roading towards Red Dot. We can put a road on Rice (since that just looks like improving road network), but after that, Red Dot has higher priority. And we don't need road on that hill tile at China Beach. Sure, we'll eventually want a railroad there, but that is so far in the future that we shouldn't worry about it now.

In general, it is more important for our workers to build a few cottages for each southern city with a library than to improve new towns that don't even have basic infrastructure yet.

[T-hawk]

I say to have Winston do his road. It only costs one turn net since the road itself saves a turn on moving to Bluebell. (and we lack Engineering for movement this turn but will have it afterwards.)

I also say to prepare Twin Peaks as Sullla suggests. Our advantage is land, but land doesn't do anything without a city working it. Chopping a granary is the best thing that can happen to a newborn city (non Sid's Sushi division. ) Twin Peaks before red dot because we have workers near TP to get the site off the ground quicker. Red dot will compete with Bluebell for worker labor for a long time to come.

Any thoughts on having Something Fishy pause the barracks to double-whip a worker? It has good growth and not many great tiles. Not necessarily right now, perhaps in a few turns; I can run math to find optimal timing.

[sooooo]

Any thoughts on having Something Fishy pause the barracks to double-whip a worker? It has good growth and not many great tiles. Not necessarily right now, perhaps in a few turns; I can run math to find optimal timing.

I assume you meant forge not barracks. Double-whipping something fishy would go against your "don't whip a citizen working a grass mine" rule twice . Something fishy doesn't really have great growth (+3), I'd say more average. For those who can't log in: it is size 5, working a fish tile, two grass mines, a dyes and a grass marble. It will grow to size 6 in 4 turns and its forge will also complete in 4 turns. At size 6 it would work a grass forest.

Its workers will soon abandon it to go and build the colossus. So I can understand double whipping something at size 7, getting back to its 5 good tiles and by the time it re-reaches 6 then a cottage will have been layed down to work. Conveniently, a barracks will take the same amount of time to build as the city will take to go from 6 to 7. Then double whip worker. So I'd put that into your spreadsheet and I'd wager it's the best option. If it turns out correct to double-whip away 2 grassland miners then I'll be amazed.

[Sullla]

I don't think there's any real need for a barracks at Something Fishy right now. We're not planning on training military here, right? All we need is a barracks sometime before we start drafting, and that's a good 30 or so turns away. If we want more infrastructure at Something Fishy, a lighthouse is the next build there, after its current forge.

The reason for pushing settlers right now is that if we found two cities in the next 5-8 turns, they still have a decent chance to grow to size 6 and participate in our planned drafting campaign shortly after T160. If we delay for a while, they have no shot at helping out... so really, it's a question of whether we think that's important or not. I know we're slightly short on workers, but keep in mind we do get two of them freed up next turn with the completion of the Pink/Cape road, and we're going to whip a 12th worker out of China Beach very shortly. 12 workers for 9 (soon to be 10) cities is pretty decent; a little low, but we can live with it.

[T-hawk]

I assume you meant forge not barracks. Double-whipping something fishy would go against your "don't whip a citizen working a grass mine" rule twice ... So I can understand double whipping something at size 7.

Sounds good to me. Definitely don't whip grass miners. (A grass miner eats 1 food to make 3 hammers, a better ratio than any whip scenario.) The optimal whip time is probably at size 6 right before the size 7 growth, timed so that the city regrows to 5 even while building the worker (or settler). That gets growth on a smaller food box, and gets around one turn of non-growth on the worker. That's what I set up for China Beach. I'll hit the numbers in detail for Fishy in a few turns, since it seems clear that now isn't the right time.

[sooooo]

I don't think there's any real need for a barracks at Something Fishy right now. We're not planning on training military here, right?

Why on earth not? It has 3 hills and a marble tile, looks perfect to build military in the south for now. Even if we're drafting we'll need good military production cities for our non-oromo units. One can take specialisation too far. I see the city long-term as a hybrid city, simliar to Pink Dot. Pink Dot has become a nice city recently, working a new cottage every time it grows but building military for us. I see SF as a second Pink Dot type city.

[Swiss Pauli]

I'd rather have a cheap Lighthouse at Something Fishy next: aside from the extra food from the, er, Fish, it will allow us to grow some coast-working, whip fodder pop whilst our southern workers are away on Project Colossus. Barracks can be built with whip overflow from worker/settler.

[Sullla]

This may not be the right place for this message, but Swiss Pauli, we have a couple of people who posted in the General Forum in our team thread, and would like to become lurkers in our forum. Since you're the one person on our team with that power, can you hook them up?

[mostly-harmless]

Imperio moved their units, scouted out A1 and merged their stacks.

Sullla should move our units accordingly.

I also accepted the Banana request for our copper.

mh

[Sullla]

Finishing up T127:

- Double-whipped Mellow Yellow's forge, which sets us up for Colossus there.

- Moved Camilla (horse archer) to shadow Imperio's chariot. Hopefully it moves south towards Pink, where it can't do any damage. If it heads for Saxon, however, Camilla will have to stay with it. Diana (Archer) is slowly moving to garrison Saxon, but will take a while to get there.

- Imperio moved their army back into their capital of Mutal:



If they were trying to fool us... well, consider me confused, because marching your army in one direction and then immediately back the other way makes no freakin' sense! The only new addition to the stack this turn was a catapult build from Uxmal. We can still handle this stack pretty easily if it comes after Cape Town, so long as we don't get hit from the other direction by Templars.

- One last thing to note: I'm going to be away in Paris for most of next week. I'll be able to play the next turn (T128) and should be fine to play the turns while I'm gone too, but in the event that I would disappear and have no Internet connection, someone will have to step in and be temporary turnplayer. Again, it shouldn't be an issue, but wanted to make sure we're prepared if something comes up.

Stats:

General

Current Turn:
Turn 127 - 300 AD
Turn Timer expires at approx (UTC)

Active Turn Player:
Sullla

Tech:
Engineering (1t)
40% research (95 [115] beakers/turn) @ +26gpt
1324/1430 beakers overall

Gold
40g in treasury

Cities

Airstrip One [size 10] [guarded by Xena and Mariah]:
National Epic (3t)
Infrastructure: Palace, Granary, Barracks, Library, Forge, Academy, Great Library
Great Scientist 168/200, +8 GPP/turn, due in 4t

Pink Dot [size 8] [guarded by Secretariat and Adria and Athena]:
Library (3t)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Granary, Aqueduct, Hanging Gardens
Slipping in some infrastructure, then probably more military.

China Beach [size 6] [guarded by Ms Piggy]:
Forge (13t) [anger duration 9t]
Infrastructure: Granary, Library, Barracks, Lighthouse
T-Hawk optimal whipping plan: swap to worker T129, whip T130

Cape Town [size 6] [guarded by Diana and Fyre Errow and Gillian and Jamie Lynn's Spears and Hannah and Christina and Aphrodite and Demeter and Affirmed and Allydar and Akara and Gladys and Nelly and Mrs Jumbo and Kitty and Kat]:
Catapult (1t)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Heroic Epic, Walls

Something Fishy [size 5] [guarded by Svava]:
Forge (4t) [anger duration 9t]
Infrastructure: Granary, Library, Courthouse
Settler whip to follow?

Green Acres [size 5] [guarded by Robyn Hood]:
Forge (31t) [anger duration 1t and 11t]
Infrastructure: Granary, Library, Lighthouse
Swap to and whip settler upon hitting size 6

Mellow Yellow [size 2] [guarded by Hera]:
Forge (1t) [anger duration 10t]
Infrastructure: Granary
Project Colossus up next

Saxon the Beach [size 2] [guarded by no one!]:
Moai Statues (121t) [anger duration 7t]
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse

Bluebell Woods [size 1] [guarded by no one!]:
Granary (28t)
Infrastructure: none
Priorities: connect to road network, connect sheep, start building silk plantations

Non-Combat Units

Worker [Winston]:
Chopping/Mining grassland hill north of China Beach
Mining (done!)

Worker [Bernard]:
Chop/Cottage grassland river tile at Airstrip One
Cottaging (4t)

Worker [Mustapha Mond]:
Chop/road/plantation silks at Saxon the Beach
Building plantation (2t)

Worker [O'Brien]:
Road between Cape Town and Pink Dot
Roading (2t)

Worker [Helmholtz]:
Build road connecting Airstrip One to Bluebell Woods
Moving to tile (done!)

Worker [Parsons]:
Help build dyes plantation at Something Fishy
Roading (done!)

Worker [Syme]:
Road between Pink Dot and Cape Town
Roading (2t)

Worker [John the Savage]:
Chop/plantation/road Something Fishy's dyes
Roading (done!)

Worker [Bob the Builder]:
Chop forests for Project Colossus
Moving to tile (done!)

Worker [Serious Steve]:
Improve deer tile at Saxon the Beach
Camping deer (done!)

Worker [Energetic Erik]:
Help chop Colossus at Mellow Yellow
Chopping (3t)

Military Units

Galley [RBS Discovery]:
Exploring Banana territory

War Elephant [Mrs. Jumbo]:
Guard Cape Town

War Elephant [Nelly]:
Guard Cape Town

Maceman [Gladys]:
Guard Cape Town

Maceman [Akara]:
Guard Cape Town

Horse Archer [Secretariat]:
Guard Pink Dot

Horse Archer [Camilla]:
Shadow snooping Imperio chariot, then move to Cape

Horse Archer [Allydar]:
Guard Cape Town

Horse Archer [Affirmed]:
Guard Cape Town

Catapult [Kat]:
Guard Cape Town

Catapult [Kitty]:
Guard Cape Town

Axeman [Gillian]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Axeman [Adria]:
Guard Pink Dot

Spearman [Mariah]:
Guard Airstrip One

Spearman [Christina]:
Guard Cape Town

Spearman [Hannah]:
Guard Cape Town

Spearman [Jamie Lynn's Spears]:
Guard Cape Town

Spearman [Britney's Spears]:
Guard workers on the Pink/Cape road

Chariot [Betty Hur]:
Move east towards the projected battlefield
10XP - our most heroic unit!

Chariot [Lady Godiva]:
Get intel on Imperio/Templar cities

Archer [Ms Piggy]:
Guard China Beach

Archer [Diana]:
Move to Saxon the Beach (long way to go!)

Archer [Billy Jean Tell]:
Exploring Imperio territory

Archer [Robyn Hood]:
Guard Green Acres

Archer [Svava]:
Guard Something Fishy

Archer [Fyre Errow]:
Guarding Cape Town (for now)
Heading to Twin Peaks eventually

Archer [Hera]:
Guard Mellow Yellow

Archer [Athena]:
Guard Pink Dot

Archer [Aphrodite]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Demeter]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Persepone]:
Bust fog in the north to stop barbs from appearing

Warrior [Xena]:
Guard Airstrip One

Warrior [Jennifer]:
Exploring the eastern continent


Foreign Builds from C&D

Templars 170EP
Jerusalem = 26 shields (+13)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks
Damascus = 38 shields (+38)
Infrastructure: Terrace, Barracks, Forge
Jericho = 24 shields (+8)
Infrastructure: Walls
Acre = 19 shields (+5)
Infrastructure: Monument

Damascus either gets a forest chop (likely) or is building something with a doubled resource.

Imperio 230EP
Mutal = 20 shields (+20)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Granary, Monument, Stonehenge, Oracle
Lakamha = 41 shields (+20)
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Islamic shrine
Chichen Itza = 12 shields (+4)
Infrastructure: Granary, Monument, Lighthouse, Barracks
Uxmal = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: Monument
Mayapan = 46 shields (+8)
Infrastructure: Monument, Barracks
Calakmul = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: Monument, Library

With Imperio having combined all of their military into one giant stack, it's now easy to keep track of their units. From what we can see, Uxmal built a catapult, bringing their total number of cats up to 7. And Calakmul built that library already mentioned, for reasons unknown...

PAL 68EP
The Warning = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, Forge, Confucian Temple, Academy
Heliopolis = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: Granary
Alexandria = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: Granary, Forge
Giza = 44 shields (+2)
Infrastructure: Granary, Lighthouse
Byblos = 28 shields (+22)
Infrastructure: none

The Warning built an Obelisk. Helopolis was a barracks. Not sure at Alexandria (~70 shield build). I have no idea how Byblos managed to pull 22 shields this turn; maybe a forest chop at 3-tile range? That's the only real possibility, as the city is size 1 and can't pull more than 2 shields/turn native.

Rabbits 48EP
Caerbannog = 95 shields (+19)
Infrastructure: Palace, Barracks, Library, Great Wall
Digger's Burrow = N/A, zero shields invested
Infrastructure: Barracks, Monument, Granary, Walls
Phrygian = 22 shields (+2)
Infrastructure: none

Certainly looks like Rabbits are building a settler in the capital... for reasons unknown. Digger's Burrow builds something costing 25 shields exactly: obviously an archer.

Banana 0EP
Doal = 52 shields/turn (+33)
Infrastructure: none

Forest chop at Doal!

Population census:
PAL 59 (size 12,9,7,7,6,6,5,5,2)
RB 47->45 (10,8,6,6,5,5,4,2,1)
Imp 40 (10,7,7,7,5,4)
Ban 27 (9,8,4,4,2)
Tem 26 (8,7,6,3,2)
Rab 8 (4,3,1)

Treasury report:
Templars: 152gold (+14gpt)
Imperio: 244gold (-30gpt)
PAL: 239gold (+122gpt)
Rab: 35gold (-1gpt)
Banana: 34gold (-9gpt)

[sunrise089]

Imperio is playing a little coy by not upgrading those units, but they better correct that before they move in. It's actually a pretty legit MP move to not upgrade on the attack if the enemy has a lot of cats, because you can try and upgrade right after the cats hit and before the main stack (many players are risk averse and won't stack-attack with everything), but in our world on no double moves, they would be very foolish to park that unpromoted stack next to our city.

[sooooo]

Logged in, only actions I took was to change Mellow Yellow from lighthouse to Colossus () and assign the new citizen we have at pink dot to a 1/2/0 tile to get its library finished this turn not next.

My opinions on the turn's decisions:

• Work the new plantation at Saxon instead of the lake
• Have Winston move 1NE. The road would only cost us a turn but that's a turn wasted.
• Serious Steve to road the deer. Need the health for when A1 grows.
• Finally we have the option of Helmholtz (worker roading from A1 to Bluebell Woods) to chop the tile he is standing on to get the granary in BW quicker. It delays the road (and trade routes) for 3 turns but gets the granary (and the food its stores) quicker. I think I'd go for the chop.