Tech Discussion

[regoarrarr]

How expensive is Astronomy itself? Could we research that without going Edu/Liberalism?

[sooooo]

Astronomy itself is certainly a possibility without education. The observatories are as good as the universities. We'd probably want to get nationalism first though and kill off a civ.

I think we should tech for 4-5 turns and then send off an email to PAL asking to trade engineering for optics or philosophy.

[sunrise089]

I tend to think we should contest it. I know we loose out on tradable techs if we try and fail, but I hate the idea of PAL running to Lib uncontested.

[darrelljs]

Does anyone have MP experience on a terra map? I tend to think the new world is a red herring, and I'd rather not get involved in any Liberalism race. We'd be better off focusing on Nationalism/Gunpowder and cracking skulls.

Darrell

[Sullla]

I agree with darrell. Do we want to put a couple of strategic cities on the Terra continent eventually? Yeah, definitely. But it's vastly more important to devote our resources to controlling our own continent first. Based on the Mao's Muse game we played ages ago on a Terra map, my experience is that the overseas continent takes an extraordinarily long time to become productive. Plus, because Vassal States are on for this game, anyone trying to build an empire over there will have to deal with crippling colonial and distance maintenance costs (at least until they build a Forbidden Palace... but again, that only takes longer to do).

Anyway, PAL is foolish if they slingshot Astronomy. They make most of their income via trade routes, and Astronomy kills off their Great Lighthouse. They spent so much time whipping units early on that their infrastructure still needs a lot of work. I would LOVE to see them grab Astronomy, as it would kill their economy off, but I don't think they're that silly.

I do think we should fire off another email to PAL, trying again to talk out a coordinated research strategy. We already told them we were going for Engineering, so it's not like we would be giving anything away.

EDIT: No wait, it's actually Corporation tech that does that. Darn you Colossus for confusing me!

[sooooo]

Generally I agree with the poor value from overseas colonies. However, astronomy could be insanely valuable to us if our trade routes are cut off. In fact, it is probably the only way to compete if that happens.

[sunrise089]

Soooo's point aside I don't want to chase Liberalism simply to deny it to PAL, but also to get the free tech ourselves.

I will discreetly ask some MP terra folks I know.

[Zeviz]

What about joining Banana on the way to Liberalism? IIRC, they bought Philosophy from PAL, so we can research (and part-bulb) Paper and Education while they save cash, and then give it to them to discover Liberalism.

Since it looks like Templars and Imperio aren't working together, a war is unlikely (Templars alone would be slaughtered and Imperio can't hope for more than a stalemate). So we can afford to delay Engineering in favor of the economic path.

[sooooo]

Haha, that is an amusing idea and one that will annoy PAL. PAL are going to supply Paper to Banana (so says banana, anyway). We gift banana a scientist and a load of cash and they gift us the techs . I'm only half kidding too.

EDIT: This, of course, doesn't work. They couldn't gift us education or nationalism because we'd lack the pre-requisite philo and paper.

[sunrise089]

We would gift them tons of cash, and they would gift us all of the techs back, right?

[sooooo]

We would gift them tons of cash, and they would gift us all of the techs back, right?

They can't give us education unless we have paper. We'd have to research paper. They can't give us liberalism or nationalism unless we have philosophy etc.

I've been thinking about the game and I've moved into the abandon-liberalism, let's destroy some civilisations camp (see metagame thread).

[Krill]

(Sorry for the thread jack guys)

Sunrise, are you still in the same clan as Mookie and Met?

[sunrise089]

Krill - in flux, but I'd like to be

Personal drama saw RaY turn into EdC with the same regulars plus a few new folks. That lasted only 2-3 CCCs, and now some of us (Mookie, Rokkit, myself) are in HSB, Metallian is in LKT with the frenchies, and some of the other EdC guys are in a new clan.

Come play with us.

[mostly-harmless]

Personal drama saw RaY turn into EdC with the same regulars plus a few new folks. That lasted only 2-3 CCCs, and now some of us (Mookie, Rokkit, myself) are in HSB, Metallian is in LKT with the frenchies, and some of the other EdC guys are in a new clan.

I hope that makes sense to Krill.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

Maybe Enginering (Philo from PAL, Feud from Banana) then Nationalism (Edu from PAL, Guilds from Banana) would be a good play in case we think we'll be out-teched to Liberalism. In fact, it seems a stronger play to me as I type, as it's more controllable than a Liberalism gambit: we don't need a GS to rein in PAL's tech lead, we won't lose the race if the war with Imperio slows down our research.

Banana should also throw in some other stuff (Drama, Compass), and we'll be able to get Guns with both pre-reqs, and then draft Oromo, maybe even having Globe.

I'm bringing this up again as I get the impression from their lack of replies that PAL sees us as their main rival for Liberalism, and is unlikely to trade us Philo. So how about learning it ourselves and trading it to Templars for Drama & Theology, and to Imperio for some peaceful tech or other[EDIT: Paper would be good]? Learning Philo would help keep PAL 'honest' (and thus not sandbag to grab a huge tech), the trades would reduce the opportunity cost of learning a known tech, and we'd be able to get on with Nationalism ASAP.

NB: Trading Nationalism for Guilds from Banana will time nicely (I think), and also clear the beaker debt to them as well.