Where Do We Settle Next?

[Zeviz]

I like the plan of whipping two settlers with SF going onto stables and CB to workboats.

[T-hawk]

Bit of a late-breaking suggestion, but I'd like to raise this idea. What about consolidating Burgundy and Twin Peaks into a single city?

The original idea re Twin Peaks was to fight for Jericho's cow and create connectivity to Cape Town. But neither of those is a factor now. Cape Town's own culture has secured the road route. We aren't going to settle Twin Peaks anytime soon while at war. Jericho now has a sizable cultural lead on the cow, we won't Creative-steal it in the foreseeable future. And we'll just conquer and keep Jericho eventually.

The location I've suggested below is just as good as the original Burgundy and doesn't steal Pink's tiles. This spot finally gets that rice in play, picks up the two unclaimed wines too, and should be easily defensible.

Any thoughts?

[sooooo]

Hmm, not sure. We lose a wines (not going to be worked by GA) and we lose some production but we don't steal cows from Pink. It does have the advantage of claiming territory, specifically the road. It's close, but on balance then I think your new city is a slightly better.

[mostly-harmless]

T-Hawk, the old Burgundy spot plays a role in our irrigation chain, which can of course be worked around.
However with only one city instead of old Burgundy and TP, we loose out on at least 4 hills to work. Plus the new Burgundy site is not really swarming with hammers. The only hill it can work, it has to steal from A1.
I am not convinced the new Burgundy spot is better than the one we planned for. If it comes to a vote (and if there are no further discussion about the pros & cons) I vote for the Old Burgundy spot.

mh

[Sullla]

We shouldn't prefer the current Burgundy site just because it saves us 4 turns of farming. That's pretty minor.

I like the new proposed site, assuming that we capture and keep Jericho. While more cities are always good, we don't need to pack them together unnecessarily either. Anyway, I can still be persuaded either way, so I'll just say a slight leaning towards T-Hawk's new spot.

What do we call it - Twin Burgundy?

[sunrise089]

Burgundy Mountain?

[mostly-harmless]

Well, I stated that the irrigation chain issues is minor and not mz major concern. It's that the new Burgundy is not a strong city compared to either Old Burgundy or Twin Peaks.

I think it makes only sense to settle it, if it is superior to our old spots. Looking at the map, I don't think it is. There is only one hill it can work and that is shared with A1.

And don't forget what sooooo said about the third wine.

mh

[MyOtherCar]

I'm in favor of Upper Burgundy, mostly since it has less overlap and brings the rice in play. Also, I'm not sure (and too lazy to check) ' vanilla' Burgundy can work all 3 hills.

[Swiss Pauli]

I vote for New Burgundy, and seeing as it has Rice and Wines, how about calling it either Sake, or Nihonshu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sake

[T-hawk]

Old Burgundy is a stronger site in total - but only by stealing good tiles (cows and 2 grass hills) from Pink Dot. The new tiles added by Old Burgundy are weaker than the new tiles added by New Burgundy. In addition to the rice, New Burgundy also has two extra grasslands for cottages which makes up for the missed wine. And it still has a hill - Airstrip One has its own hills and in all likelihood will never want to work the shared one.

Votes so far for Old Burgundy:
mostly_harmless
Ruff_Hi (in the turnplayer thread)

New Burgundy:
T-hawk
sooooo
Sullla
MyOtherCar
Swiss Pauli

[sunrise089]

Anyone think our enemies will be clever enough to try to split our defenders between New Burgundy and A1? If not, I guess I vote for the new spot as well.

[Zeviz]

How would this conflict with a replacement city for Jericho? (I thought we agreed to raze Jericho and put a new city with less overlap and better tiles.)

Can somebody make a dotmap that covers both Burgundy area and nearby Templar lands? (I am assuming we'll keep Jerusalem and Constantinopole, but raze Jericho, however, there might be better options.)

[ruff_hi]

I am on it - expect some screenshots with blue marble in a bit

[ruff_hi]

Here it is. Note that I have loaded up our own version of the game so that I could use BUG's dot mapper. Also, I think there is an error, the forest hill 3 tiles West of Pink Dot is a Grassland hill, while our own version of the game has that tile as a Plains hill.



Legend:
Green Dots - our own cities
Yellow in East - Jerusalem
Light Blue in East - Constantinople
Dark Blue in South East - Templar Capital
White Dot - Twin Peaks
Yellow Dot - New Burgundy
Red Dot - Burgundy

Here is a zoom in on New Burgundy (shot from actual game, not our version)


Zoom in on Old Burgundy (shot from actual game)


I am going to revote for Old Burgundy for the following reasons
- a size 8 city can work the following tiles and only lose 1 food
- center tile (1 hammer) +2 food
- work 3 wine tiles (3 hammers) food neutral
- work 2 grassland farms +2 food
- work 1 grassland mine (3 hammers) -1 food
- work 1 plains mine (4 hammers) - 2 food
- work 1 desert mine (3 hammers) - 2 food
- zero tiles borrowed from other cities actually needing those tiles

A total of 14 raw hammers - that is pretty good. I also don't like New Burgundy because it paints a target on it. Sure, Old Burgundy does the same, but it is tucked behind PD. I actually like the empty middle that we have - enemy units have to travel a long way before they actually get near something they can kill.

[Dreylin]

Well, I guess the Templars pause has some benefits...

I think I prefer to stick with Vintage (Old) Burgundy, but I'm not sure I have a good feeling as to why.