Team Info and Contacts - Templars

[Sullla]

I don't care how we go about stating our case with Templars. Just please try to achieve the following two things:

1) Line up the Engineering for Drama/Theology deal.
2) Make sure we aren't facing a Templar/Imperio alliance.

Beyond that, I'm fine with just about anything. Asking for compensation feels like a bad move though, IMO. Who cares if these clowns get a nice deal now? We've got twice their number of cities, half again their population, and double their GNP! It's only a matter of time before we move against them and crush 'em into the ground.

Time is on our side, always remember that.

[mostly-harmless]

If we settle under cover of a NAP, you can bet your bottom dollar they'll not be interested in renewing, as they'll feel 'used & abused' (and they'd be right).

So what? They will still not be able to do anything against it.
We were used and abused by Templars in the blown up tech deal. What are we going to do about it? We turn the other cheek and offer them another tech deal, which is actually in their favor.

Anyway, so it seems we just offer the Engineering vs Drama&Theology in game. then?

(btw. why is Theology so important to us again? We can get Drama done in 2 turns+overflow).

I don't see any realistic way to ensure we are not facing an Imp&Tem alliance. They will not go for a long NAP, they did not even want to continue the NAP beyond T124. They don't like us and will jump at any opportunity to get a chunk out of our lands. So either we are prepared to take on both or just take on Templars and hope Imperio is not responding.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

mh, you've taken that quote out of context, so it seems that you have understood the thrust of my message. I disagree with Sullla that we need a NAP whilst we're on the defensive (i.e. short term), we actually need a NAP (with either of them) when we're on the offensive (i.e. medium term). Hence my proposal for a 50 turn NAP with Imperio (so we can go after Templars), and no NAP with Templars right now (so we don't blow our slim chances of a NAP when we need it to attack Imperio).

If Imperio attacks soon, units from Cape can be dispatched to deal with a Templar incursion if our main stack is sitting at home (and we can draw on units from our main stack as well if we're winning the battles at Cape). If we are attacking, we'll need to reinforce that stack, and won't be able to use any units from it for home defence.

Where I do agree with you is that all the evidence we have points to a certain level of cooperation between Imperio & Templars that is designed to at least keep us in check, and at worst to deliver our head on a pole. And they're quite right to do so...what's that line about hanging together we once used


Finally the deal would be Eng for Theo & Drama + recompense for the beaker difference.

[sunrise089]

We don't have an agreement to settle Twin Peaks where they proposed it: their nearest site was illegal (2SW of Cape Town), so we wrote back with a vague wording about 'welcoming their offer for us to settle a bridging city to Cape'. Thus Twin Peaks will be contentious for a team as touchy as Templars.

If we settle Twin Peaks without a NAP, we're effectively saying we don't fear them, and they might just get over in time to agree a NAP that will facilitate our war with Imperio. If we settle under cover of a NAP, you can bet your bottom dollar they'll not be interested in renewing, as they'll feel 'used & abused' (and they'd be right).

Anyone remember the time Templars double-moved a settler to settle a contentious border city?

How many of us are calling for negative actions against Templars because of it? Negative thoughts are another matter, but we aren't holding it against them.

I continue to feel we are overstating the diplo effects of actions in this game. While there has been some saber rattling and delayed responses, the only outright diplomatic penalty we've suffered was Templar's refusal to trade Metal Casting, and that was the result of Imperio's pressure and a condition to a previous trade.

[sooooo]

The problem with demanding compensation is that they never specifically told us we had a deal. Banana said "templars are in", but if we demand compensation they will say "err, what deal?". We don't know exactly what templars told banana, if they were in for the full deal or were still considering something of whatever.

To be honest I still like my original draft. I'm not even that keen on making the proposed tech deal with them. Engineering will be really good for them, drama is a cheap tech and theology we won't need for a long while.

[Zeviz]

There are a lot of ideas, so we need to organize our thoughts. Let's decide on three things:

1. What do we want from Templars now?

2. What do we want from them in medium-long term?

3. What tone should we take with them?

[regoarrarr]

I am fine with not demanding or even mentioning compensation. I like the trade, becauase 4-5 turns not spent researching Drama and Theology is 4-5 turns sooner we can start Operation Bloodbath

[Zeviz]

Here are my answers:

1. What do we want from them now?
Engineering for Drama + Theology + cash deal gives us two of the 6 techs we need for Operation Bloodbath. It also forces Imperio to research Engineering with no trade value.

2. What do we want from them in long term?
To stay out, or at least to hesitate to take sides when we go after Imperio. (Whether that happens 30 turns from now or 5 turns from now.)

3. What tone should we take?
I think best tone would be polite but firm. We shouldn't re-open border agreement issues, and we might even want to parade a small stack past their borders to remind them what they are dealing with, be we should remain completely polite and avoid expressing displeasure unless we are using that displeasure to get more consessions out of them.

[sunrise089]

Ok Zevis, I can like with that

[Sullla]

I can't help but note that we debated and never came to a conclusion over what to send Templars...

[Zeviz]

Proposed message:

Honorable Knights Templar,

Are you interested in obtaining our knowledge of Engineering (1430 beakers) for Drama (429 beakers), Theology (715 beakers), and 250$ in cash?

Sinserily,
Zeviz, interim embassador for Team RB

[Dreylin]

Sincerely

But otherwise looks OK.

[regoarrarr]

is 300 beakers really worth $250 cash? And (from C&D) do they even have that this turn? I mean yes I'd be happy to get extra coins, but I'd much rather we have the techs sooner rather than later.

Any short-term advantage they get will be more than met by our long term advantage

[Zeviz]

Fixed typos and adjusted requested amount of cash based on C&D data:

Honorable Knights Templar,

Are you interested in obtaining our knowledge of Engineering (1430 beakers) for Drama (429 beakers), Theology (715 beakers), and 150$ in cash?

Sincerely,
Zeviz, interim ambassador for Team RB

EDIT: We should also make this offer in game as soon as we get Engineering. Maybe their turnplayer will get greedy and accept it right away.

[regoarrarr]

I just logged in and they only have 42 gold. I also didn't see Drama in their available techs (maybe I was looking at the wrong team)?