The Ultimate Guide on Game Strategies on Huge Maps - your input-

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I definitely disagree with Yahweh, too. On huge maps (may be except archipelagos, but they have their own rules anyway), Commercial is definitely an awesome trait. You can settle/conquer gigantic empires and suffer remarkable less corruption than the others. Expansionist is also a very useful trait, along with Industrious. The former is the better, the larger your landmass is and the less civs are on it. The latter is the better, the younger the map is (in terms of 3,4,5 bill years). This puts Civs like France, Carthage and England ahead. These civs are completely missing in your analysis.

You must have misread what I wrote...

I think commercial is arguably the BEST trait on a huge map. I love the commercial trait!

The reason France, Carthage and England are missing from my analysis isn't that I dislike them necessarily... I am playing one civ at a time, to win on a huge map as each one. I just haven't gotten around to England, Carthage and France yet. I'm saving what I feel may be the best for last!

Militaristic is a mediocre trait on huge maps, especially when the map is undercrowded (less than, say, 12 civs). This vastly increases the distance between the different theaters of warfare and makes the usage of troops less efficient.

I'd have to agree with this, but as someone pointed out, with 16 civs on a huge map, you have less space than with 8 on a standard map, and the militaristic civ is VERY handy in this case. I'm playing a "come up from behind" game as the Vikings right now, and I'm surrounded with enemies whose cities I want, one of which might soon be building the Sistine Chapel. But I'm not going to quit, because the militaristic trait gives me a good shot at taking this city, especially if the Germans or Celts DON'T build it.

Religious and Scientific are still good traits, but hardly reach the importance of the top 3. Scientific is additionally hampered by the presence of many civs. This means increased research cooperation and tech whoring, which leads to a general devaluation of techs as a whole. There's just too many ways to keep up even without or with low research.

I would have to disagree. Perhaps scientific isn't as key as religious, but the culture benefit alone makes these traits strong contenders, as they allow you to grow early on the game, a pretty crucial time, IMO.

Once again, bear in mind that I have not played as over half of the civs in C3 and PTW (that is, to completion). As I play complete games with these civs, I will post my opinion, and I welcome any counterpoints.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

This thread seems to have died out, which is a shame. Is anyone still interested in the topic?

[Ubergeek]

One thing I would point out is that "empire-wide" wonders like Cistine's, Bach's, Adam Smith, Hoover, etc. seem to have a magnified impact in a Huge game. To have something that pays for every marketplace, bank, stock exchange and commercial dock in an empire of 60 cities is a GIGANTIC advantage. Doing whatever is necessary to get to those techs and wonders first is, IMO, much more important than on a standard game.

The other thing to point out is that, with enemy civs so much bigger, wars tend to take a longer time to build up to, fight, and wind down from. This means WW becomes more of a factor (in my experience) and therefore Republic and Demoncracy are less suited for fighting Total War than on smaller maps.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Ubergeek
The other thing to point out is that, with enemy civs so much bigger, wars tend to take a longer time to build up to, fight, and wind down from. This means WW becomes more of a factor (in my experience) and therefore Republic and Demoncracy are less suited for fighting Total War than on smaller maps.

I would tend to agree with that.

Say you face an enemy on a certain number of fronts. On any, you can mass troops to take out the cities on that front in one turn. But on a larger map, you're much more likely to have to face cities BEYOND that front... not to mention if you letter settlers "slip through" and found weird cities in the middle of nowhere in the mid-early game... and who doesn't? You're likely to have more of those on a huge map than on smaller ones, where land is more limited, and you must divert troops to face those cities, lest they launch small forces to screw up your infrastructure or genuinely threaten you.

Hence, monarchy is much more preferrable. A republic would works best if you can wipe out enemies in one or two turns. If you can't, then stick with Monarchy...

...I still think Democracy is the finest government form by the industrial era, though. No communism for me. I hate slaughtering people, though it's certainly useful for some things.

[Arrian]

Actually, the map size makes not the difference in gameplay. It's the number of civs, that makes games on huge maps different. Good diplomacy is much more important. You don't want 10 or more AI civs to gang up against you. The likelihood to get good resource or luxury deals also sinks drastically, because the landmasses are bigger and it's harder to gain a monopoly.

SR, I'm gonna disagree with you a bit here, but I concede right off the bat that you play Huge maps more than I do, so I could be off-base. Ok, disclaimer aside...

Gaining a monopoly is harder, yes. But that cuts both ways. With 15 AIs out there, some of whom will be much, much weaker than others, I think it actually could be easier to work trades by keeping the weak, poor civs up to date in tech in exchange for their luxuries/resources.

In AU207 (my only Huge map experience), I was able to work trades with France, India and Arabia at different stages in the game that netted me luxuries in exchance for tech that the "Big Dog" AI, Korea, already had.

Similiarly, when I first discovered the overseas civs, I had fallen behind on the "northern" branch of the medieval tech tree, but was slightly ahead in the "south." I traded metallurgy for at least 4 techs, and a bunch of gold, because I could sell it to several different civs, thereby marching my way up the northern branch (instead of selling it to just one or two civs and being hamstrung by the inability to get more than one tech at a time because of the prerequisites).

I agree with you that diplomacy is very important, and that you most definitely do NOT want a pile-on of 10 AIs.

-Arrian

[Master Zen]

France, Carthage, and if you're lucky the USA are the best civs for Huge maps.

I don't play huge too much because of my slow computer but I enjoy them far more than any other since I find it to be more real. Warfare is also incredibly fun since now you are controlling hundreds of units over huge battlegrounds.

But as some of you have pointed out, warfare is a major chore as a republic or democracy, even if you have police stations and the Universal Suffrage. Switch to monarchy or communism if you plan to fight a major (i.e. more than 10 turn) war.

I fought a 14 turn war as a democracy and it was hell... lucky for me I had a lot of luxuries.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Arrian
I agree with you that diplomacy is very important, and that you most definitely do NOT want a pile-on of 10 AIs.

This can be a big problem no matter how "nice" you are, especially if you over-REX. Hence my problem with the expansionists, especially the European expanionists.

[Cruddy]

One topic that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the coastal impact. First, an obvious point; cities by the sea nearly always produce the most commerce.

With a huge map, getting that commerce for tech means that archipelago (60% water if you're aquaphobic) gives the quickest tech potential - and also slows down the AI-AI tech whoring a little bit. However, it also means that you have to do most of the early tech research yourself...

It's what I nearly always go for on a huge map, although I won't bother playing if I can't build more than 8 cities on my start location. I tried it once, and by the time I had galleys, the AI was researching Steam Power!

[Master Zen]

Cruddy:

I've found that the best strategy is to act as tech broker. Sure, you will not be able to catch up if you research by yourself, but if you look smart you won't fall behind.

I would prefer many river tiles than sea tiles. Of course, at least one very good sea location would be good so I can build the Colossus and start a super-science city.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I would have to agree. I'm willing to start in the "middle of nowhere" with no luxuries whatsoever if I have an incredibly rich river valley.

As long as there's some luxuries I can conquer nearby.

[Ubergeek]

There may be some sort of quirk in the map generator or it might be my bum luck, but most of the time I start out with NO luxuries anywhere near me. This is so typical that I am just used to pouring everything I have into developing my research so I can trade for luxuries from other civs who always seem to have them in superabundance. Curiously, I never seem to have this problem on smaller maps, but on huge maps I go into the game expecting to have at most one luxury tile inside my borders by the time I have 40 cities.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Ubergeek
There may be some sort of quirk in the map generator or it might be my bum luck, but most of the time I start out with NO luxuries anywhere near me. This is so typical that I am just used to pouring everything I have into developing my research so I can trade for luxuries from other civs who always seem to have them in superabundance. Curiously, I never seem to have this problem on smaller maps, but on huge maps I go into the game expecting to have at most one luxury tile inside my borders by the time I have 40 cities.

My reflexes are so honed due to this problem that I can press ctrl+alt+q and then enter 3 times in about 2 seconds. There's no shame, in my view, in restarting to get a good - even a golden - starting position. You just need to have the patience for it.

There is a lot to be said for sticking it out no matter where you start. But if you're not one of the Apolyton Gods yet, I would suggest just restarting a bit.

A huge map is damn good fun but not if you're in a miserable start position. Of course, few luxuries around tends to mean fewer neighbors which can work to your advantage, and against it...

[athorpel]

I play huge maps exclusively. What I have found is this.

First, Luxuries.

Luxuries come in bunches on map editor generated maps. Groups of a single type of luxury concentrated in relatively small areas. I've been playing other games lately so bear with my faulty memory. It seems that the width on these groups of luxs is maybe 10 squares, a 10x10 area of map squares with a single luxury type covering 6 to 10 of those squares. I might be stating the obvious here, but I haven't seen this mentioned in this thread.

In other words it is very probable that most civs will get monopolies very early. Sometimes they will get a monopoly on more than one luxury. This makes it profitable to keep weak civs around longer than you would otherwise as long as they don't share a border with your empire. I will mention proxy wars later.

I have also noticed that certain luxuries will be on one continent but not on the other. I play continent maps. No more than three large landmasses. The luxuries will be split between the continental landmasses. This forces everybody to trade for what they want. Now remember I am talking about randomly generated maps. Oh yea, I usually play with the maximum number of oppenents. It gets whittled down to 10 or so pretty quickly anyway.



From what I have said previously it should be plain, diplomacy is crucial. You must think long term on a huge map. Build those relationships. Be honorable, never actively make them hate you, let the game play do that for you. Sooner or later you will have something they don't have and they will slowly become annoyed.

I spend a lot of time on diplomacy. I try to trade something at least every other turn with almost every civ. It is a chore but it lets you notice trends in AI behavior and attitude. I initiate the formation of alliances with groups of civs that for obvious reasons should be allied. Geography dictates a lot of my choices. I also choose the alliance members based on what resources they control and on the natural affinities of the civs involved, I think I am referring to ethnic affinity. If one or more civs are becoming a problem I have the mostly surefire way of controlling the situation, wars by proxy. They are my tool of choice for keeping the AI occupied while I prepare my own offensive.

The thing that I try to accomplish is this, plan an outcome early. Start the diplomatic efforts early. Have a goal in mind when dealing with any other civ. I am talking about 100 to 300 turns into the future. Everything you do should be geared toward the decided upon goal for that civ. Whether that goal is to use that enemy civ as a tool to keep a resource out of some other civs hands, or to destroy that civ completely. Don't just make plans for yourself, plan what you want to accomplish with the other civs as well. Bend them to your will. It can be done. I'm sorry if I am stating the obvious here. I think I am describing another aspect of the process of gaining Ultimate Power.

Sidenote:
Espionage is your friend. You have lots of opponents. You must find out what they are up to. Plants spys, keep trying. Get a spy in every oppenents capital.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Athorpel, I disagree with you on a few points:

a. It seems MORE likely that you will not achieve a monolopy of a given luxury on a huge map until you control the entire continent. Playing as the Japanese currently, I have crushed the French, Chinese, Spanish and Koreans, and taken half of Mongolia and Germany, but with India intact and Germany and Mongolia still alive, I don't have a monopoly on luxuries. I'm close, but I've still got to rule the whole damn continent (two, actually, if you count the two haves on one side of a classic ithsmus). This seems to be the typical case. But you don't always need a monopoly to trade successfully.

b. Planting spys can often backfire. Make sure you give a 4 turn breather window before attempting to plant another spy. Too many failed attempts and you're at war.

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Master Zen
Cruddy:

I've found that the best strategy is to act as tech broker. Sure, you will not be able to catch up if you research by yourself, but if you look smart you won't fall behind.

I would prefer many river tiles than sea tiles. Of course, at least one very good sea location would be good so I can build the Colossus and start a super-science city.

I agree that being the middle man offers excellent opportunities. I disagree with you about the rivers - it's VERY rare to get as many river tiles on a city site as sea tiles. Ahh, but maybe on archipelago I've been getting less rivers?

BUT sometimes - everybody else meets up before I even get on the scene. Up to now I guess I've played pessimistically...

So I guess the Great Lighthouse is a pretty crucial build for my strategy. Never built it yet, I'll give it a try...