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The Quest for Deeper Strategy....

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  • #16
    Good point re: units....a pity we can't make the rules changes apply only to the human player....*sigh*

    'k, I shall remove that one from my list....and contemplate some other fiendishness....

    -=Vel=-
    The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

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    • #17
      Vel,

      If you do the tech cap thing, you may want to remove the Great Library, or (if possible) modify its effects.

      -Arrian
      grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

      The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

      Comment


      • #18
        Actually, I don't think the tech cap would greatly overpower the Great Library. You can still buy techs from the AI for cheap after everyone knows them. You can also get them by asking politely after you have left them with one city.

        Comment


        • #19
          Excellent points! As I see it, the problem with beelining straight for the Great Library is one of defense. Unless you are Scientific/Commercial, a beeline for the GL will leave you defending with nothing but Warriors til you get Literature...that could be a LOOOONG time coming, and if you meet a militaristic civ with Archers, then, defensive bonuses for your towns aside, you're pretty much toasted.

          Likewise, unless you find luxuries, a beeline straight for GL will leave you without temples, further hindering your growth, and your ability to maintain happiness while it's building.

          Essentially then, it would strengthen that beeline, but not, IMO, overpower it. Likewise, the rush game wouldn't be killed off, but it would require more forces to get the job done. Where an early Archer rush now can get the job done with 4-5 Archers, you will probably wanna have 7-8 Archers in your strike force now. A significantly higher investment for the same damage.

          Still, when I'm mucking around in the editor, I'll take a look at the GL and see if it can be modded to sharetech4, instead of 3, for example....and maybe bump the price up, too.

          So...my revised list looks like this:

          1) Unit tweaks: ZOC, Range-0 Bombards, Price fixing for a few units that really need it. (This includes adding the wheeled flag on tanks, MA, and MI) - will also toy with boosting the ADM values for paratroopers and marines slightly, to make them more attractive still. (also includes the age-specific HP bonuses).

          2) Increase the strength of Barbs - we'll use the Bab Bowmen and horsemen...how's that for a compromise? Makes them sturdy, all around stubborn son of a guns, but not quite as vicious as I originally outlined.

          3) Tech Cost Increase, with a corresponding increase in GL cost (or possible removal?)

          4) Taxman/Scientists now require pre-requisite techs (along the non-warlike path, it should be noted), and now actually provide some useful advantage 3 of the resource they provide

          5) Slight modification to defensive bonuses.

          6) Give Commercial Civs an extra starting tech - Pottery.

          7) Tweak naval unit movement rates, and relocate ironclads, extanding the age of sail.

          ****

          It's true, rivers will be HUGELY more important post mod, than they are now. I mean, they're important now...no denying it....but the changes I plan to make, will make access to a river something worth going to war over, as it can and will have serious long term reprecussions on your game....consider a resource then, to be a "multi-tile" luxury item.....yowza!

          Will make the aforementioned tweaks when I get home, and post the modified file here for anybody who's interested!

          -=Vel=-
          The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

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          • #20
            OK, sound pretty good, but one dumb question.

            What does "Range-0 Bombards" mean?

            well, actually make that 2 questions. If MI is being set as wheeled, will it still cancel out regular infantry? How do I send in the dogfaces to the jungles or mountains?
            I have no living enemies!

            Comment


            • #21
              Hey guy! Range 0 Bombard gives the defender a shot at you on your way in. (kinna like when artillery fires defensively when you attack a city that has artillery in it).

              MI should still cancel out regular infantry, yep....I don't think that adding the flag will upset the upgrade path.

              -=Vel=-
              The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Velociryx
                D'oh! Forgot to make it an even dozen changes: Specialists: Taxmen available at Currency, provide 3 coins, Scientists available at writing, provide 3 beakers.

                -=Vel=-
                This is a good mod. Makes specialists even with population working tiles and either has minimal effect on the game or I haven't figured out to take advantage of this correction to Firaxis preferences.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Tim_Hobbit
                  If MI is being set as wheeled, will it still cancel out regular infantry? How do I send in the dogfaces to the jungles or mountains?
                  Marines or paratroopers! Finally something useful for these guys to do! (Shhh.. don't let Catt hear that)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Thanks guy! It was one we did in the Mod-With-No-Name, and I always thought it was a good one. Not sure what the logic behind having a pop point only produce a single gold or beaker....that really reeks. Makes specialists worse than useless, cos you still have to feed them! At least this way, they're "paying their own way" so to speak.

                    And yes...I'm pretty excited about the possibility of Marines coming into their own!

                    Oh...and one more thing....what can we do to make Helicopters...umm....even worth building? Increase their transport rate? Give them a heinous attack? I dunno. I have personally only built one, just to see what the graphic looked like (cool), but never used it, 'cept to fly it around for a couple of turns.

                    -=Vel=-
                    The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Vel,

                      I posted a mod in another thread that has most of the changes you are talking about. If it's ok, I'll post another copy of it in this thread, so you can see if it's more to your liking, and so I can get your help improving it.

                      Most of the changes I made seemed to really make it alot tougher to overrun another civ in the ancient era, but made combat more realistic with much stronger modern era units. I too have seen some spectacularily unrealistic combat results and I figured the unit strengths and terrain defensive changes would reduce the chances just a little. It makes keeping up in technology terribly important so you don't wind up with archers and pikemen facing modern infantry...

                      I won't be home for a few hours yet, but in the meantime I'll see if I can find the original post.

                      D.
                      "Not the cry, but the flight of the wild duck,
                      leads the flock to fly and follow"

                      - Chinese Proverb

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Lethal Bombardment

                        Originally posted by Catt
                        I played for a while with a mod that included lethal naval bombardment (i.e., most bombardment units could kill naval units but not land units).

                        That alone "broke the game" as the AI simply didn't use it effectively.

                        Catt
                        I play with lethal bombardment, and have not discovered it broke the game. I find myself not using it because it usually is not needed or wanted.

                        Naval lethal bombardment
                        -- Probably not a good idea as navy is so crippled as it is by needed to return to port to rebuild HP's.
                        -- AI definitely does sent cruise missiles and bombers after BS, DS and carriers.
                        -- player reaction, need to build carriers for air supremacy power

                        Land lethal bombardment
                        -- does help shorten end game when AI has 5-10 of those 15+ cities
                        -- AI does use bombers, but not artillery. I would recommend removing from artillery.
                        -- bombers get so exposed by hopping from air field to airfield, their lethal bombardment does not hurt the game. It does though change their roll from primarily offensive to 1)long range defense vs incoming stacks, and 2) speeding up breakup of metropolis comlexes.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by alexman
                          Check out player 1's mod for minor unit tweaks that improve game balance.
                          Yes, check it out!

                          It's good MOD.
                          Even Firaxians liked it (it's posted at civ3.com too).

                          Although it's made to be closer to "core" Civ3.
                          (not to many game breaking, or diffcult for AI, changes).
                          Makes it easier to MOD to diffcult tastes too.

                          It has also nice readme file with explanation for every change made into the game.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by alexman


                            Marines or paratroopers! Finally something useful for these guys to do! (Shhh.. don't let Catt hear that)
                            Originally posted by Velociryx


                            And yes...I'm pretty excited about the possibility of Marines coming into their own!


                            If you're interested in some of the modern age mods, I had a pretty good experience with the fairly common crusie missle / naval missle changes: cruise missles with a range of 4; nuclear subs carry 4 missles (nuke or cruise), and Aegis carry 2 (cruise only). AI actually used them.

                            I also had some fun with allowing the regular submarine to carry up to 4 foot units -- the AI used it several times to surprise me by dropping infantry off on my "secure" and "surveilled" continent -- but RR makes that sort of tactic pretty worthless. What I really wanted (of course ) was to have the AI use a couple of subs stocked with marines to amphibiously sneak attack a weakly defended "home continent" city. Didn't happen for me but I didn't give it much of a chance since I gave up the mod pretty quickly and went back to standard games.

                            I modded the helo to carry 4 units and increased its range. Still never found a use for it.

                            Finally, Vel, the new patch is coming very soon -- I wouldn't go to the trouble of modding extensively until the new editor is out.

                            Catt

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                            • #29
                              Vel,

                              Found it:

                              http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...5&pagenumber=2

                              Near the top of the page. I was hoping for some suggestions on how to improve it, so any and all criticism welcomed.

                              D.
                              "Not the cry, but the flight of the wild duck,
                              leads the flock to fly and follow"

                              - Chinese Proverb

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Vel - "Oh...and one more thing....what can we do to make Helicopters...umm....even worth building? Increase their transport rate? Give them a heinous attack? I dunno. I have personally only built one, just to see what the graphic looked like (cool), but never used it, 'cept to fly it around for a couple of turns. "

                                I typically build hundreds of helicopters! Every city on my main continent that doesn't have anything better to do builds helios. Then I pop them over the underdeveloped/hi corruption cities across the ocean and desolve them into shields.

                                I also have never found a good military use for them and so never get them confused with real units that I might need somewhere.
                                I have no living enemies!

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