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The Quest for Deeper Strategy....

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  • realpolitic
    replied
    Making modern naval units more accurate makes the game more interesting - my destroyers are +2 movement faster than battleships, +1 movement on cruisers. I also use -2 attack and defense on destroyers and cruisers.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Modding for -1 pop on military units has been difficult. This is similar to adding 20 sheilds to the cost. I only use -1 pop on land units (that have a nonzero attack value). Granaries cost 90 shields and 2 gpt, barracks cost 60. These costs are fair, and they

    The other exception is warriors and JW cost 0 pop & 20 shields and cannot be upgraded. Since archers cost 1 pop & 20 shields this is a fair price. Archers, longbowmen etc. also have bombardment abilties. Archers, longbowmen, Swordsmen, Midevil Infantry can join cities. MI cannot be upgraded.

    Cavalry and more advanced units cost 10-40 more because the -1 pop rule makes the early units more expensive.

    Towns only go to size 5, Cities to size 10 in my mod.

    Adding this mod is not as good as I would have hoped, because all one does is give more food to a city in micromanaging it, but it does make the game slightly more interesting.

    Leave a comment:


  • Theseus
    replied
    Holy thread-surrection!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Cardenio
    replied
    Chiming in-

    I've come to the same conclusion that mil units must cost a population point. But just the ' man ' units. Up to ' Infantry ' Ships, tanks, cannon should no cost population. That's the advantage of them, but the cost a lot of production/gold and require resources.

    There are ways to work all these problems out without changing the whole structure of the game.

    Leave a comment:


  • FrustratedPoet
    replied


    I was just about to post that same exact thing jshelr!

    Leave a comment:


  • jshelr
    replied
    This thread might usefully incorporate alexman's thread on AI build orders.


    http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=56961

    Leave a comment:


  • Coracle
    replied
    Originally posted by royfur

    . . .Now if I can just figure out how to DO this! I've had no luck changing the tech tree around in any way. Crash city! Anyone who knows how, I cheerfully allow you to steal my ideas ...

    Civ on.
    A forumer named Plutarck some months ago did all that in his LWC mod - real changes in the tech tree. Do a Search for him and "tutorial", as he actually posted how to do it.

    Leave a comment:


  • royfur
    replied
    Originally posted by lockstep


    IMO this needs to be solved 'case-by-case'. I like the fact that an army of, say, 3 cavalry units has the blitz ability (multiple attacks per turn), even if the single cavalry unit doesn't have it. OTOH, an army of marines that can't do amphibious attacks (as was reported today) ... this sucks.
    As has been shown previously, not only do Army's of Marines not do amphibious attacks, Army's of Paratroopers cannot do Airdrops.

    Speaking of new Improvements, I'd like to see one and its related tech requirement: Advanced Mining (tech) and Ore Processing center (City improvement). The later would be like Gen. D's "Manufacturig Plant" (ie not the Modern era one, but an improvement to Factory available much sooner then the modern era MP). Boost shield outout of course, like the MP/Factory, cost say 260. Insert the Advanced Mining Tech in the Tech tree in between Replaceable Parts and Mass Production. Maybe cause 1 Pollution rather then two?? Alternatly, call it Machine Tools Technology for the tech and Industrial Center for the improvement ... again the idea is an intermediate between Factory and Manufacturing Plant, about the time of Replaceable Parts and Mass Production.

    Now if I can just figure out how to DO this! I've had no luck changing the tech tree around in any way. Crash city! Anyone who knows how, I cheerfully allow you to steal my ideas ...

    Civ on.

    Leave a comment:


  • lockstep
    replied
    Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen
    This may be something that we need Soren to address in case this becomes an issue. He would need to make the Army transparent so whatever units were in the army, it would inherit their flags as well.
    IMO this needs to be solved 'case-by-case'. I like the fact that an army of, say, 3 cavalry units has the blitz ability (multiple attacks per turn), even if the single cavalry unit doesn't have it. OTOH, an army of marines that can't do amphibious attacks (as was reported today) ... this sucks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gen.Dragolen
    replied
    Just for the sake of an arguement, I think Armies should have the "Wheeled" unit flag set because armies could often be blocked from terrain that a smaller unit could still pass through.

    Having made that point, Sun Tzu points out that one should always use local guides to traverse unfamiliar terrain. And considering where armies have been in the past (Alexander the Great springs to mind: give me a goat trail and I'll out-flank anyone)

    This may be something that we need Soren to address in case this becomes an issue. He would need to make the Army transparent so whatever units were in the army, it would inherit their flags as well.

    In the meantime, if you can get a GL then make an army of chariots (I have no idea why you would want one) and give'm hell.

    D.

    Leave a comment:


  • alexman
    replied
    Good point!

    Of course the same is true in the unmodded game with chariots. So I would keep Armies as they are now - unwheeled. Makes them more powerful. A good thing IMHO.

    Leave a comment:


  • IthacaMike
    replied
    Originally posted by alexman
    Some suggestions for you:

    1) Give tanks the "wheeled" flag. This way they can't enter mountains and jungles without roads.

    Reasoning: Makes paratroopers and marines more useful. Also enhances realism.
    There is a bug here. If you put three Tanks into an Army the Army can cross mountains that the Tanks can't. If you put the "wheeled" flag on the Army an Army with three Swordsmen can't cross jungles.

    Pick your take I guess.

    Mike G

    Leave a comment:


  • Gen.Dragolen
    replied
    lockstep,

    Oops, I had forgotten that they were available after Robotics... like you said, many skip the modern age.

    I just never seem to be able to get the AI Civ's to keep up so I can trade for advances. Too time consuming to do everything oneself. So I want to make them affordable and make them not show up just before the end of the game.

    This just goes back to my feeling that many of the later advances are overpriced. Either that or corruption is overdone and eats all the beakers that should have given an empire that covers 2/3rds of a planet all of the modern advances.

    It just seems odd to me that my empire's usually building space ship components in a early 1900's era factory whose energy needs are met with Solar Power Plants...

    D.

    Leave a comment:


  • lockstep
    replied
    Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen
    I would add ... Manufacturing Plant. The manufacturing plant would be upgrade of the factory, as the current progression jumps from Industrial Age to Post-Modern. This should improve the AI Civ's and our ability to produce more modern units, at a time when our ability to assemble large ships, aircraft, and buildings dwarfs what was possible in the early 1900's.
    Ahem ... Manufacturing plants are already included in Civ3. Available with Robotics.

    Obviously, many players skip the modern age.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gen.Dragolen
    replied
    Vel,

    Just be careful what you wish for...

    I should have another one with some documentation (that will take a week or two to complete) with the new units tonight. I have some wiring to fix up in my house first. Then I can get to some serious fun with the editor.

    Be forewarned. With the 1.29 patch, when you get a GL from an elite unit, you get to name the elite unit. Coming up with names will be a new challenge, but a purely pleasurable one. My first GL in a while came from a Marine unit, so they became Merrill's Marauders. And one other minor detail: the AI Civ's are a little less reasonable about trades: don't bother trying to knock off more than about 5 coins from a trade deal, and they will almost always refuse an offer for any alliance or luxury good you could use. Not sure if that is just better tactics or a change to their behavior rules.

    I would still love to sit down and do some analysis of the improvements as it seems that in alot of cases, because I still feel like we are missing on the scale that the game is based on. I keep thinking that improvements like Temples should be on a scale like the Temple at Karnac, or like the Parthanon... opulent and having wider effect than just the one city.

    To that end, two of the improvments I would add would be public schools and Manufacturing Plant. The school would have three main effects: +1 hp/produce regulars instead of conscripted troops, +1 culture (Another Brick in the Wall ?) and make one unhappy citizen content (parents can send their helions)

    The manufacturing plant would be upgrade of the factory, as the current progression jumps from Industrial Age to Post-Modern. This should improve the AI Civ's and our ability to produce more modern units, at a time when our ability to assemble large ships, aircraft, and buildings dwarfs what was possible in the early 1900's. Pre-requisites should be aluminum, oil and computers ? I want to say robotics, because the recession in the early 1980's was due to the introduction of robotic assembly lines and computer automation, so large numbers of skilled workers were no longer needed. The recession wasn't as bad in the US, but in Canada, you couldn't even buy a job at McDonalds...

    From what I've experienced in games so far, I think that many of the modern advances are too expensive and don't have enough pre-requisites to balance. I keep finding out day after day just how interconnected everything in the world is and it should make the game a little more challenging if it reflected this too. And there is no way in the game to account for how powerful the research establishments are at creating new knowledge. Hmmm... new small wonder idea: Particle Collider - acts like Seti Project. A new discovery in sub-atomic physics can have a big impact on weapons and medical technology.

    More later. Gotta get some work done.

    D.

    Leave a comment:


  • Velociryx
    replied
    Outstanding! I've not downloaded your earlier modding work yet, cos I've been doing some map work in the editor, but I'm itching to try out your earlier changes, and these sound fantastic!

    -=Vel=-

    Leave a comment:

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