Bye bye PtW

[Rhothaerill]

I don't know how soon I'll be able to get to this (I'll be busy and then on vacation most of the week), but it definitely sounds interesting.

[Snotty]

Wow, Looks fantastic. Ive really been looking forward to this. Thanks!

[Harovan]

That's how it looks:

[Harovan]

And for those who want to have the same game like me, here's my start. Settings are huge (200x200), 24 civs, raging barbarians, continents, normal, temperate, 3 billion years, emperor. And since I didn't play them since that famous early AU game (was it AU102? Somewhere there), it's the Germans for me. They have an ok builder and a good warmonger trait and an awesome UU so late, that I actually may make it through the industrial age without abandoning the game, just to get it.

[Harovan]

Ok, I finished the mod. Here are all changes I made, and the mod itself, for those, who want to try a random map. The mod allows every map size, even tiny, just these map sizes are larger than their originals and allow more civs.

Bye Bye PtW mod


General Settings
================
- Minimum Research Time 5
- Maximum Research Time 50

Terrain
=======
- Added the ability of hills to have uranium and gems
- Removed all resources except gold from mountains
- Removed the roading bonus from mountains and added 1 commerce to the standard tile values
- Removed the Allow Cities flag from desert, tundra, forest and jungle
- Made ocean impassable for wheeled units

Units
=====
- Marine changed to 10.6.1, +1 HP, cost 12
- Paratrooper changed to 8.8.2, +1 HP, cost 12, range 8
- Guerilla has hidden nationality and can build forts
- Archer and Bowman have range 0 bombardment of 2
- Longbowman and Berserk have range 0 bombardment of 4
- Knights and Samurai are wheeled
- Keshiks ignore movement cost on mountains and hills
- War Elephants ignore movement cost in forest and jungle
- Cavalry, Cossack and Sipahi are wheeled
- Tank, Panzer, Mechanized Infanry, Modern Armor are wheeled
- Radar Artillery is wheeled and has movement 2
- Cruise Missile is wheeled, can be loaded and have range 4
- Galley is wheeled
- Caravel has 4 movement
- Frigate, Galleon, Man-O-War and Submarine have 5 movement
- Ironclad is wheeled
- Carrier and Battleship and Nuclear Submarine have 6 movement
- Transport, Destroyer and AEGIS Cruiser have 7 movement
- Destroyers can detect invisible and carry 1 tactical missile
- Nuclear Submarine can carry 2 missiles
- Fighter has range 6
- Bomber, Helicopter, Jet Fighter and F-15 have range 8
- Stealth Fighter has range 12, bombard strength 6, lethal sea bombardement, has his load flag

removed and can intercept
- Stealth Bomber has range 16, lethal sea and land bombardement, has his load flag removed
- Catapult, Cannon, Hwach'a, Artillery, Radar Artillery and Leader can be airlifted

World Sizes
===========
- Tiny 80 x 80 6 civs 250 TechRate
- Small 100 x 100 9 civs 312 TechRate
- Standard 120 x 120 12 civs 375 TechRate
- Large 160 x 160 18 civs 500 TechRate
- Huge 200 x 200 24 civs 625 TechRate

[notyoueither]

I am interested in this. Sir Ralph, could you PM me when you are starting?

[Datajack Franit]

You must have a kickass computer but let us informet about that

[jshelr]

The thing I worry about with huge maps and all civs included is that trading tech becomes rediculous. You can get several times the research cost of a tech by selling it over and over again, as we found in the AU game. This hobbles the AI and makes victory certain, if also painfully long in achieving it due to the processing time needed. Maybe you can develop an idea for getting around that, with prohibition of the human player selling tech the only dumb thought that occurs to me.

[vmxa1]

I think the biggest hit on AU402 was all the water. It caused lots of contients and lots of harbors. I think this was the main reason that turns could take a long time, with 24 civs.
It still took about 26 minutes on my 3.02 GH pc, if a city went down or was founded. If not, then some turns even late in the game could go in less than a minute. If a city was found/lost and wars were going on it could be painful. The same turns took nearly an hour on my 1.7 GH rig, if those events occurred.

[Rhothaerill]

This sounds like an interesting game SR. My only concern is my computer speed. My computer wasn't up to snuff to play AU402. I was getting 30+ minute turns in the 1500's and eventually had to quit.

[Jaybe]

- No roads on mountains. Stock mountains given +1 commerce.

Now why didn't I think of that ... as an alternative to my mod's "Mountains are Impassable (no ifandorbuts)." Thumbs up on all the terrain changes (I hadn't disallowed cities in jungle yet), wheeled horse and motorized/mech units, .... Even a large map would do fine!

Not sure which I would prefer re the mountains. You often have mountain passes with my mod, and yes there are isolated cities. In my current game I have only sea access to one of my core cities on the same continent (when I don't have a RoP).

It's all about not having the choice of moving large formations through the mountains, having terrain really influencing strategy. Whether just disallowing roads would be satisfactory, I do not know.

[FrustratedPoet]

Playing a game with large sections of unsettled terrain in the later ages will be a great novelty in itself. Sounds good.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Arrian
The mountain thing is a bit extreme, but I see what you're trying to do. Is there no way to tie roadbuilding on mountains to a tech? Too bad the "wheeled" thing is for mountains AND jungles, otherwise you could make workers wheeled, and create an "engineer" available later in the game that isn't wheeled. Then workers can't road mountains simply because they can't move onto them, and engineers can come later and do the job (as well as RR for the production bonus).

To create an extra unit is a good idea. I will think into this and make some tests. Btw, in my description I forgot to mention, that the War Elephant can't be wheeled either, or he can't enter the jungle, which movement cost he has removed.

No cities on desert or tundra? I know you are trying to cut down on the AI's worthless towns, but a civ that starts in the far north or south (tundra) or near the equator (desert/jungle) could really be screwed.

I ran some tests in debug mode, and yes, there are a few civs screwed, usually around 4. But it's 4 out of 23 , so it doesn't really matter.

What I also want, is to create unsettled areas. First, because the barbarian threat persists and you have to protect your workers against horsemen, second, to give airfields some use. It buggers me greatly, that you can build them only in own or unsettled territory. Since in normal games there is no unsettled territory and in own territory I have cities, there's no room for airforce bases. I also like the idea of having to build colonies. I know, that the AI will do it.

[Arrian]

Cool stuff, SR.

The mountain thing is a bit extreme, but I see what you're trying to do. Is there no way to tie roadbuilding on mountains to a tech? Too bad the "wheeled" thing is for mountains AND jungles, otherwise you could make workers wheeled, and create an "engineer" available later in the game that isn't wheeled. Then workers can't road mountains simply because they can't move onto them, and engineers can come later and do the job (as well as RR for the production bonus).

No cities on desert or tundra? I know you are trying to cut down on the AI's worthless towns, but a civ that starts in the far north or south (tundra) or near the equator (desert/jungle) could really be screwed.

I like the idea of having to chop forest or jungle before settling though.

The "wheeled" tag on galleys & ironclads is a great one. I like that a lot.

RRs... hmm. I think you have it: increase the movement on roads (especially given the size of the map) to 4.

-Arrian

[Harovan]

I like the CtP combat system better than the Civ3 one. Not only because of true combined arms, but also because of the limited movement (10 moves per move point is all you can get, and that is already in a future age), the zone of control and the limited number of unit you can have at one tile (9 in CivCtP, 12 in CtP2). It's just not realistic to have the whole army of a country at one tile .