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**korn469** · November 9, 2002, 08:16

Let the Ruler have this power, I don't think he would use it much

if this power if rarely going to be used then why shouldn't it be a vote to enforce the emperor's will instead of hi just doing whatever?

think about it, if the emperor asks a player to change his build and the player doesn't there must be a reason right? the emperor could still call for a vote to change the production and get his way without hurting any feelings, but what i worry is if the emperor can change a build queue at any time they might not even have the curtesy to ask, and they may in fact change the build queue without asking and then inform the king/lord of the city after the turn is over...that is the behavior that worries me, and putting a couple of limits on that behavior will encourage courtesy and diplomacy on the emperor's part, and ever without forcing a change simply by asking and giving a good reason why that should cover 99% of the situations, for that last 1% i say lets make it as fair as possible, and in my opinion that means putting it to a vote

**Donegeal** · November 9, 2002, 10:16

Originally posted by korn469
think about it, if the emperor asks a player to change his build and the player doesn't there must be a reason right? the emperor could still call for a vote to change the production and get his way without hurting any feelings, but what i worry is if the emperor can change a build queue at any time they might not even have the curtesy to ask, and they may in fact change the build queue without asking and then inform the king/lord of the city after the turn is over...that is the behavior that worries me, and putting a couple of limits on that behavior will encourage courtesy and diplomacy on the emperor's part, and ever without forcing a change simply by asking and giving a good reason why that should cover 99% of the situations, for that last 1% i say lets make it as fair as possible, and in my opinion that means putting it to a vote

yessh... you really believe in democracy, don't you?

Why add needless beauracratic red tape to something that should be able to be done anyway? What you are proposing is exteremly inefficent.

Your right, the Ruler would be able to make changes and only tell you afterward. Its his call. Does an Emperor or High King need to ask a Count if he can do something? No. He just does it. The difference between real life feudal system and the system I propose is the No-Con vote. That Count would just have to take the unannounced change in the rear and be happy he's still a Count. With the No-Con, that Count can stand up for himself.

Lets put it another way. Lets say your the Ruler, and I'm a City-King. We are at war and we need Knights or Pike to continue the war efforts. I'm building a Courthouse in my city on the front. You want a Knight. Under my proposal, you make the change for the greater good of the empire. Under your proposal, you ask an underling if you can change something that you see as something needed for the empire (after all, it is the rulers job to guide the empire). I say no. Now you have to go to the polls to see if you can do you job of looking out for the greater good of the empire. Now imagine that its not just me. Imagine if there are four City-Kings who don't want to change. Look at all the red tape and posting that is going to be needed just to do something that you think is plainly obviously for the greater good of the empire, all the while we are losing out on stragety discussion. You are preventing yourself from doing your job.

Now lets look at it from a peaceful situation (or at least no pressing need ). Knowing that overriding a build pisses off City-Kings and could get you thrown out of office (at which time the build could be changed back anyway), would you use the override power?

**=OttomusCeasar=** · November 9, 2002, 10:56

Originally posted by donegeal
Knowing that overriding a build pisses off City-Kings and could get you thrown out of office (at which time the build could be changed back anyway), would you use the override power?

I can think of at least one member in the Civ3 Democracy game that would. There ARE people who ignore rules and the opinion of others, it would be nice to develop a "perfect" system that holds them in check but I'm not sure that's possible.

GF- I think your crown icon is the best so far. (No offense, UnOthOdOx)

Oh, and have we decided on a Civ yet? The Chinese sound okay, but the Scandinavian have an early amphibious unit, and Spain's Conquistidors have an adequate attack value while being able to move SIX TILES in one turn! (I can't get over that, that's a lotta distance)

**Ennet** · November 9, 2002, 15:13

Ok I think donegal has right in this case the Empiror should be able to override the Kings and change production. Motivation: 1) The Empiror is responsible for the empire and it's he that will lead our armies in battle, it's he who plays it and he will have the best overlook etc. If something is needed fast he must be able to react quick, not having to wait for a lot off polls.
2) If we're going by a feudal system we are going by a feudal system and not some kind of republic, for the fun of the game there might be some restrictions to his poers - yes, but we should go as close to a feudal system we can without spoiling anything.
But if we cant agree then we might just make a poll about it.

Ohh and I think Arabs is quite nice, their UU is fast and cheap..
And yes donegal i think you can tell MarkG you're our leader (lnot necesarry Empiror tho) as you are the founder when it comes to it..

**UnOrthOdOx** · November 9, 2002, 16:22

Originally posted by =OttomusCeasar=

I can think of at least one member in the Civ3 Democracy game that would. There ARE people who ignore rules and the opinion of others, it would be nice to develop a "perfect" system that holds them in check but I'm not sure that's possible.

Hey!!! I never ignored the rules as VP, I just kinda bent them or made new ones to my liking...what, the last four amendments, and one official poll allowing a bending of the executive office were all submitted by me? (Yeah, I know, you may not have been talking about me...at least I hope you werent...)

GF- I think your crown icon is the best so far. (No offense, UnOthOdOx)

I agree. And heraldrically (if that is a word...using heralry), it means the devine purpose of bringing rule/truth through might, (or thereabouts crown = divine, colors = military and rule/truth)

**=OttomusCeasar=** · November 9, 2002, 16:41

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Hey!!! I never ignored the rules as VP, I just kinda bent them or made new ones to my liking...what, the last four amendments, and one official poll allowing a bending of the executive office were all submitted by me? (Yeah, I know, you may not have been talking about me...at least I hope you werent...)

Wasn't talking about you, but now that you mention it....

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
I agree. And heraldrically (if that is a word...using heralry), it means the devine purpose of bringing rule/truth through might, (or thereabouts crown = divine, colors = military and rule/truth)

Official proposal:

"The Divine mandate to go forth and kick the arse of all other races, who in his infinite wisdom were created our inferiors by the Lord Almighty (a diety yet to be established), to teach them with our superior intellect and inspire them to (although its impossible) attempt to attain our most glorious level of perfection."

Oops, forgot the last bit:

"with all humility."

**Donegeal** · November 9, 2002, 17:59

Originally posted by =OttomusCeasar=
"The Divine mandate to go forth and kick the arse of all other races, who in his infinite wisdom were created our inferiors by the Lord Almighty (a diety yet to be established), to teach them with our superior intellect and inspire them to (although its impossible) attempt to attain our most glorious level of perfection."

I

this! I would almost say go with the bannor and crown right now but I/m still waiting for Aro's Icon (should have it by Monday).
About the "with all humility" thing... screw it. Kill'em All

**Donegeal** · November 9, 2002, 18:09

Originally posted by =OttomusCeasar=
I can think of at least one member in the Civ3 Democracy game that would. There ARE people who ignore rules and the opinion of others, it would be nice to develop a "perfect" system that holds them in check but I'm not sure that's possible.

Ok, say that this person ended up in power and was our Ruler. Now he goes about changing builds and queues without telling people. What happens? The City-Kings get pissed call for a No-Con vote and dispose of him. The Kings may all now change their builds and Queues back to what they had. Problem solved. I honestly think the abuse of power will most likely come from the City-King side. Threatening the Emperor and whogeewhatsits Ministers with No-Con votes if they do anything that isn't wanted. I guess the agrument against that will be the fact that just because a No-Con was called, doesn't mean that the government official will get deposed. Agruments will get hashed out in the No-Con thread.

**Ennet** · November 9, 2002, 18:16

We should have a chat on mIRC i think. Apolyton server #gloryofwar tomorrow 13:00 CEST (CEST = GMT + 1) or any other time.. for thoose of you who can make it, it would be nice to have a chat

EDIT: Should our team name be "The Glory of War" or we going to have another one? If so, what? Any suggesions?

**Donegeal** · November 9, 2002, 18:36

No fair! I was just going to post a time schedual!

One vote for 1200 GMT (

I think most of the team is in the states and that might be a bit early for some).

1400 GMT (8 AM CST, this gets my vote)
1500 GMT
1600 GMT
1700 GMT
1800 GMT
1900 GMT
2000 GMT

1200 GMT is too early for me (still at work), but 1400 on might be doable. Just remember that I usually go to sleep when I get home from work.

These are just suggestions, put out a different time that will work for each of you and will try to get one that works for most.

**Ennet** · November 9, 2002, 18:38

ok 14:00GMT is fine by me

**GhengisFarb™** · November 9, 2002, 21:49

Originally posted by =OttomusCeasar=
"The Divine mandate to go forth and kick the arse of all other races, who in his infinite wisdom were created our inferiors by the Lord Almighty (a diety yet to be established), to teach them with our superior intellect and inspire them to (although its impossible) attempt to attain our most glorious level of perfection."

Oops, forgot the last bit:

"with all humility."

Heck, I don't want to try making another icon now.

So we're talking at 8:00 am CST?

**Donegeal** · November 10, 2002, 03:00

Yes, 8:00 AM Central Standard Time. I think there might only be three people there....

I will send out PM's to all team members.

By the way, has anyone seen Panzer? You think that Panzer would be easy to find, but I guess its like that joke: Did you see the elephant hiding in the tree? No? Pretty good spot, huh?

Server: Apolyton.net
Room:#civ3gloryofwar

If the PM I sent you said something different, umm... sorry. This post is the correct location.

**Aro** · November 10, 2002, 07:55

I'll be absent for one month.

See details here. I'm working on the logo, and tomorrow I'll post it to donegeal or in this thrad. You can put me out of the team, if you want to, because I'll have any use for a long time...

**Ennet** · November 10, 2002, 09:11

too bad, but i guess this game will go on for some time tho..

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