Spite and Malice....

[WhiteBandit]

Originally posted by Theseus
My apologies to anyone who was mad about the make-up of GS... after nye got it started, I sorta went on a recruiting warpath.

Headhunting, as it were.

Oh, and by the way, did I mention I want to win?

No hard feelings here. Play on!

(bold emphasis mine)

Here here!!

:claps:

Seriously, why are we arguing over this? We're not going to convince each other of our views ever. Everyone is pretty set in stone about how they feel. I mean let's just erase all our posts from now on and write "+1".

In any case, GoW and ND have still left two cities standing. We don't need your pity you bastards, bring it on!

And on that note, I would like to end this post with the following:
Has anyone taken into account Lego sitting over there looking innocent?

While we're all over here trying to contemplate world peace, Lego is in the background stealing our stuff and giving us the finger! In fact, I believe this whole thing was setup by Lego for world domination!

Therefore I offer the following proposition:

Let us all put our differences behind us and unite against a common enemy: Lego!

And since imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, RP will offer you all a deal, modeled after our GoW overlords: Once Lego is carved up, you can all go to hell and not touch one bit of that continent! Come on! It's fair! You do our fighting and we get the land.

[Note that I am only joking! Mostly... :P]

[vondrack]

[Harovan]

We never denied the true reason of our intervention. Our admitted reason was always, that we cannot accept a continent of that size divided by just 2 nations. It doesn't matter, if ND or GoW is the big dog or if both counterweight each other, either constellation is unacceptable. We admitted this, and in return we get a huge pile of nonsense like this:

As far as myself, yes I have hard feelings towards GS now. No, I don't think they betrayed us. I think they insulted us in the way they chose to assist RP and in some reasons given in private for doing so. I feel they in essence told us "We don't want to expand ND, and we don't trust you to play Civ well enough to act as a balance for ND, therefore we will stop it."

Again personal opinion, and perhaps I am wrong, but I feel that GS has looked down thier nose and decided GoW doesn't play well enough, that ND is the only real nation on Bob, and that GS wants to prevent ND becomming powerfull with us as a Vassal. I am a bit insulted by this, and could very well be wrong, but have been told, or had implied, such from more than one source many times. So yes, GS is now a target of mine.

As for the ISDG, I think I left the team at the right time. At this time I already could see, that the team spirit is pretty bad. I'm not surprised to hear, that this didn't get much better. I never regret this step, even though I'm inactive now in my new team and thus, practically out of the game.

I have to admit, that after the last pile of flames and insults I have serious personal issues with many of the active GoW members. This is not limited to this game anymore and not at all "only skin deep". I'm at a point, where I won't join any new game, be it a demogame or only a PBEM, with these people. And I deleted MZO from my links list. I tried to calm things down, but in return I got basically (with other words), that it can't be helped, the flames won't stop and if I don't like it, I can bugger off. Strangely, this feeling is limited to GoW, since ND does not participate in the flame wars and limits its contribution to calm and mostly insightful comments.

[Hot_Enamel]

Originally posted by Shiber
Let us not forget the wrongs that were done to Trip, when several members of GoW set out to prevent him from achieving the position of Minister of War for the Apolyton ISDG team following the Luxian war.
It can be argued that those people objected to Trip's appointment over professional reasons, but the apparent desire to stop Trip from gaining any formal status within the ISDG team, and utterances such as "We must not let Trip touch ANYTHING!" left me with no doubt that this was another incident where animosity from the PTWDG was carried on elsewhere.

Good Grief !!!
My vote was based on PTWDG performance.

[Shiber]

Vondrack, regarding the matter of animosity from the PTWDG carried to the ISDG: I stand behind my statement. I know, first-hand, that several members of the PTWDG community have objected to Trip's appointment over personal issues carried off from the PTWDG (their snide and venomous comments have left me without a doubt). The particular cases that I have witnessed involved members of GoW, but I would never say that this phenomenon is limited to GoW members only (that would be just as harsh as the personal campaigns held against Trip).
I only brought the matter up as an anectode, to point out that animosity is being carried off from the PTWDG, despite several denials that I've heard in the last few days (some are simply unaware of certain events or things that took place in private, others were directly involved in such events and still deny). I'm not trying to make a case against GoW either, although to be honest (and I'm taking a big risk here just to voice my personal opinion; please don't start a flame war over this) it is my personal opinion that the warmongers team has attracted more hot-heads than any other team.
I only mentioned GoW because I was upset that certain individuals from GoW whom I know were involved with making decisions that were based on animosity carried off from the PTWDG against people in the ISDG have had the nerve to deny that this phenomenon even exists in our community. I am certainly not mad at that team as a whole - just at those individuals; please don't take this any other way.

(and I have a baaaaad feeling that I'll regret ever having made the last two posts)

[Shiber]

I already regret posting that.

H_E:

when several members of GoW

That doesn't necessarily mean you (sorry for being such a Webster's Dictionary, please don't be offended if that goes off as cynicism, I don't mean it).
Please, the last thing I need today is posts with a rolleyes smiley that are directed at me.

[vondrack]

Shiber, just to clarify my note on the PtWDG/ISDG - yes, I, too, very well know that Trip did not become a Consul because of what happened to Lux in PtWDG (and I have already mentioned that I personally thought the issues some had with him were, at least at that time, quite understandable, if not even justified... he had to prove he had learnt his lesson - which he has done and keeps doing, IMHO).

I commented on your post because I knew that even some members of RP did not want Trip to gain power (to make decisions) in ISDG - although I felt that their issue was mostly not personal, but based on sort of a "professional" aspect. They considered Trip's strategy and diplomacy in PtWDG simply plain wrong and were trying to prevent him from doing the same mistake in ISDG, where stakes were higher. It was not GoW only (to be honest, I heard from the members of the RP, not GoW... but that's perhaps because they happened to be the folks I was talking to often at that time).

And, Sir Ralph - I am happy to say that the ISDG team is now an oasis of cooperation and peace, at least from what I can see in the forum. I am no longer a Consul in there (resigned months ago), so I do not come to the chatroom all that often (quite seldom, actually) but I still follow the forum very closely, because I keep doing the turn reports on regular basis. We did have several periods of very heated discussions, but I believe the waters are now pretty calm and quite enjoyable. Everybody works towards the common goal.

I wish this forum would be as productive, on-topic, and flame-free as the ISDG forum is now...

[Shiber]

I second that. The Apolyton ISDG team does its job very professionally, and the team's officials take their positions seriously (and still enjoy a fine game by the looks of it).
So hurray to them!

[Hot_Enamel]

@ Shiber

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by Shiber
Let us not forget the wrongs that were done to Trip, when several members of GoW set out to prevent him from achieving the position of Minister of War for the Apolyton ISDG team following the Luxian war.
It can be argued that those people objected to Trip's appointment over professional reasons, but the apparent desire to stop Trip from gaining any formal status within the ISDG team, and utterances such as "We must not let Trip touch ANYTHING!" left me with no doubt that this was another incident where animosity from the PTWDG was carried on elsewhere.

Well, you better not be talking about me, cuz I don't remember ever bringing up anything about anybody in the Apoly ISDG forum...........


@WhiteBandit
pity pity pity pity pity pity

[UnOrthOdOx]

I wasn't aware of problems in the ISDG either. I had a scuffle over there with anonymous members, but that had nothing to do with the PTWDG. Just more of the same crap I have always been faced with, that I didn't feel like dealing with there.

[Panzer32]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I have to admit, that after the last pile of flames and insults I have serious personal issues with many of the active GoW members. This is not limited to this game anymore and not at all "only skin deep". I'm at a point, where I won't join any new game, be it a demogame or only a PBEM, with these people. And I deleted MZO from my links list.

I am sorrry you feel this way

I tried to calm things down, but in return I got basically (with other words), that it can't be helped, the flames won't stop and if I don't like it, I can bugger off.

I am afraid I might have been one of the people who was saying this. I based this on a philosophy that in a game such as this that involves backstabbing etc. does cause conflict such as we've seen on the forum. I do believe, however, that this conflict can be toned down (as it has done in the past) after certain posts are made. I would like to be one of them but I'm really not that good at wording posts (I mean even this one took 20 minutes to write!)

Strangely, this feeling is limited to GoW, since ND does not participate in the flame wars and limits its contribution to calm and mostly insightful comments.

I wouldn't say this is completely strange, as ND is more detached from the Apolyton side of this game. I imagine not every one of their members checks here regularly, and some might not speak English as well as others (just a hypothesis). I also notice that it seems as ND's leader is the one who posts, maybe he has more control over his emotions or something... but again I don't know the full extent of the situation.

Sir Ralph, or anyone else for that matter, if you want, you can always bring up anything I've said in a post via PM. If you believe it is offensive to a person, then please feel free to approach me about it. I never want this game to get to a personal level and it saddens me that I might have put it there.

I also feel that this something to do with the make up of GoW. If you put a team together of warmongers, I am sure that, on a whole, they would tend to be slightly more hot-headed than a team of builders.

Just to wrap up, again, I am sorry that you feel this way and are discontinuing all democracy games. If you would like one that is essentially flame free, the SPDG is quite good at bringing people together. Unfortunatly it is suffering from a lack of interest right now.

From a concerned member of GoW,

Panzer32

[Hot_Enamel]

Originally posted by Shiber
I only brought the matter up as an anectode, to point out that animosity is being carried off from the PTWDG, despite several denials that I've heard in the last few days (some are simply unaware of certain events or things that took place in private, others were directly involved in such events and still deny). I'm not trying to make a case against GoW either, although to be honest (and I'm taking a big risk here just to voice my personal opinion; please don't start a flame war over this) it is my personal opinion that the warmongers team has attracted more hot-heads than any other team.

I think the GoW "hotheads" may post a lot more in the forums, but all GoW in-game action has been calculated responses to other team actions. And only done where there is an advantage for us to do it.
Ask the most level-headed members in our Team if you wish.

Some RP members refuse to believe that their earlier in-game actions are the sole cause the the current war against them. (GoW perspective) I dont really care if they belive it or not, but I will respond to any post that says that GoW or ND are the aggressors in this war. Our actions are in response to early RP diplomatic aggresiveness (They call it negotiating from the postion of power) that made RP too difficult to ally with.

Some GS members refuse to believe that there was no vendetta against them from the other teams. I will acknowledge that GS was identified to have a powerful member base, but the GoW has never acted in-game against GS in any way except when it was advantagous for us to do so. Vox "invaded" Bob, and was driven off. GS now "invade" Bob and will also be driven off. If Lego does the same, they will also meet the same fate.
Again, I will probably respond with denial the next time a GS member brings it up.

It's as simple as that. GoW plans on winning the game. Every team has their individual hotheads and some rants that have become personal. But it is my belief that 99% of the posts are done with humor as the intent.

Those posts which border on being personal attacks, I ignore. Certainly Shiber and many others ignore me. In fact, it seems Shiber only responds if I insert a

[Shiber]

No I don't!!

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I have to admit, that after the last pile of flames and insults I have serious personal issues with many of the active GoW members. This is not limited to this game anymore and not at all "only skin deep". I'm at a point, where I won't join any new game, be it a demogame or only a PBEM, with these people. And I deleted MZO from my links list. I tried to calm things down, but in return I got basically (with other words), that it can't be helped, the flames won't stop and if I don't like it, I can bugger off. Strangely, this feeling is limited to GoW, since ND does not participate in the flame wars and limits its contribution to calm and mostly insightful comments.

This is exactly why I have gone back twice and deleted my posts. Someone reports my post to a Mod (which doesn't bother me THAT much) but then also informs me I have emotionally wounded them (which does bother me).

So, to Sir Ralph and everyone else I apologize to everyone I have emotionally wounded and driven from the game of Civilization and all its descendants. That was never my intention.

I guess this means I have to be careful about my comments towards GS to. At the rate I'm running through teams we're going to have to declare war on Lego soon so I have someone else to make fun of.