The Glory of Manifestos

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Deleted.

[History Guy]

(the debate chamber bursts into song)

EVERYONE:
Sit down, Zen!
Sit down, Zen!
For God's sake, Zen,
Sit down!

GHENGIS:
Somebody open up a window!

EVERYONE:
No! No! No!
Too many flies!
Too many flies!

MZ:
Voteee yes! Voteee yes!
Vote yes for hating RP!

EVERYONE:
No! No! No!
Have mercy, Zen, please,
It's ninety degrees...
It's hot as hell
In Neu Delph-i-a!

GHENGIS:
Somebody open up a window!

EVERYONE:
No! No! No!

ZEN:
Voteee yes! Voteee yes!

(it continues in quite the same fashion for about 20 more pages of trash...)

[ZargonX]

That's why Zargon's UN initiative was so good.

Let me just bask in that for a moment... ahhhh....

Thought the concept has been shot down several times in this game, I think when the time comes for PTWDG III, it must be something that can be discussed from the outset. I don't think a UN will ever hinder a team from donig something, but it will definately make the arguments of who has the moral highground much simpler.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Deleted.

[DeepO]

MZ, I agree in principal that a UN could have given an extra dimension to this game. However, there are so many practical problems with this, it makes it unworkable. I agree that for some, teleportation by giving cities back and forth might seem an exploit. We discussed this in our forum before doing it, and decided that it wasn't such an exploit... the reason is, we did it twice before for Vox, and there were mulitple other instances of creative uses of game mechanics (mind you: no exploiting of bugs!) that happened before.

for instance, a UN would have to make sure that the one attacked is also the one declaring war. GoW once got a happiness boost (and quite a significant one) for about 20 turns when it forced us to attack them, making sure that it would be a 'technical war', without real danger for invasion of GoW territory. We mentioned this in public, however didn't whined, and certainly didn't called it an exploit, however just as trading cities around it 'abuses' game mechanics.

The idea of declaring war to break lux or resource trades is just as easily an 'exploit'. I don't know of any of these happening in this game, but there sure was talk about it at one time. In this game, I don't consider it an exploit, as it is just a way of circumventing a dumb rule in Civ, which says that all resource deals have a minimum 20 turn duration. But with a UN and strict rules enforced, that would be one of the things to discuss.

DeepO

[Arrian]

HistoryGuy's post is the kind of post Shiber is trying to permaban people for.

You really have gotten into roleplaying a crazy guy, huh?

-Arrian

[History Guy]

Holy Mackeral!

It's a Legoman!

I've never seen a live one! Is it true that you are entirely made of plastic and that you can remove your head and replace it with another one and that you can attach yourself to your buildings and that your entire country is made of plastic, even your dogs, and that you are all indestructable, even if you are pulled in half, because you can snap yourselves together, and that the only thing that can damage you is a magnifying glass on a really hot day?!!

[History Guy]

Arrian,

This entire thread is just heaven for guys like me who think this "political" trash talk is extremely ridiculous.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
AND I WANTED TO BEAT UP ROLEPLAY CAUSE OF ALL THE HIPPIE NAZIS ON THE TEAM.

Hippie Nazis...isn't that an oxymoron?

Kinda like the "jewish fascist liberal commie" Fezzism!

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Deleted.

[Arrian]

I don't think a UN will ever hinder a team from donig something, but it will definately make the arguments of who has the moral highground much simpler.

How so?

-Arrian

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Aggie
2) We attack Rp because of past actions. Partially true but for many, me included, this was not the reason. The reason was that ND has been the best ally a nation can expect. They have helped not just to the letter of the agreements between us, but have helped all the way to the intent of the agreements and beyond. How could we honorably side against such a loyal friend. Unfortunately for RP and GS we could not.

I thought I covered that one:

Originally posted by Arnelos
Glory of War, blinded by their lust for vengeance against RP Team for bad relations in the distant past (I'm more than WILLING to admit that RP Team had as much to do with the souring of relations as GoW... GhengisFarb and Togas did that one TOGETHER... it's a pity that few from GoW have ever had the rationality to overcome it in the months since, however) along with having people just bored of not fighting on their team, decided to attack RP Team in a particularly irrational move.

I know there are those on your team who do not hold a grudge against RP Team, but it's also been abundantly clear for months that there are many who DO. That, more than anything else, played the decisive role in the choice of targets, as MZ is saying.

RP Team has not been blind to this, we have merely found it irrational, as it will leave GoW in a less advantageous position toward winning the game.

So it all comes back to what we actually did know (and what I've been harping on in our internal forum), that there are many on GoW who hold a personal grudge against RP Team that they do not hold against ND for a large variety of reasons. As such, GoW is taking the clearly less advantageous policy because of (as I put it) "emotional reasoning" over "logical reasoning".

I find this frustrating as I happen to believe policy should not be lead by one's emotions (and was as upset as others on RP Team when Togas did that with GoW long ago), but by concrete matters of national interest.

That said, I understand it exists and it's obviously played a very large role in this game, not just between RP and GoW. It's also not the only inter-team game where strictly rational approaches to policy have been trumped by emotional reasoning, either. I continue to maintain that it puts the team that lets it affect their reasoning at a disadvantage, but it's still a very important element of the system (especially to USE on others as perhaps ND has done) - one I will admit RP Team has not been as careful about with some teams.

It will be very interesting to have a discussion about these things after the game is over.

[History Guy]

*sigh*

This is very funny, honestly.

Except that after 6 pages of the same rambling argument going on and on it is very tiresome. Are you chaps going to settle anything by this sort of thing? Let's go kill each other on the battlefield instead! It's much more interesting!

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Deleted.

[History Guy]

Amazing! Well, I'm pleased by that comment, Ghengis!

But you'll never get my squids! Ahahaha!