The Glory of Manifestos

[UnOrthOdOx]

Even from GoW's POV, I'm sure you had realized that the offers that you've made us were garbage.

Cheers.

Thanks for informing me that all my hard work was seen as nothing but Garbage in the eyes of GS. I for one thought that I had offered very respectable offers for all that were involved in those negotiations. Both before and after the gifting of cities. Before, I was looking for a compromise to what both GS and ND insisted on. It was not even given a second look before the gifting of cities. After, I sought a RoP, nothing more. This was scoffed at by claiming GS wished to advantage neither GoW nor RP in the war, despite the fact you had a RoP with RP in place.

So, my time as your ambassador was garbage in your eyes. Fine. You could have saved me allot of trouble and time if you had informed me of that long ago.

[Arrian]

UnO,

On a personal level, I'm sorry you worked hard for something that didn't pan out. Seriously, I am. It wasn't your fault. The gap between ND & GS was too big for you to bridge.

-Arrian

[Shiber]

Vondrack: I'm glad that you think so too.
In fact, I'm not surprised. You've been a sensible voice during the Vox-GS affairs as well. Though I'm afraid that I wasn't as sensible back then.

[Panzer32]

Just posting that I'm here and I frankly don't care for the accusations flying around. Lets all be (enemy-)friends.

[Shiber]

I'm going to set up a petition or something.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Arrian
UnO,

On a personal level, I'm sorry you worked hard for something that didn't pan out. Seriously, I am. It wasn't your fault. The gap between ND & GS was too big for you to bridge.

-Arrian

We are now far beyond that Arrian. There are at least some that feel the entire thing was nothing but garbage it would seem. It has nothing to do with the little attitude problems you two had. The whole original deals have been called garbage. A waste of time. Not working out is something else all together.

I finally understand where I went wrong though. GS never intended to negotiate. GS does not negotiate. I see that now. You do it their way or no way, no middle ground is to be had. My mistake. I was obviously not the right person for THAT job, for I am a negotiator myself.

[Tiberius]

Darekill:

Boys, don't let personal feelings get into this. If I remember with nostalgia something from the Vox-GS war, it is the fight, the great strategies/tactics and surprising moves, the trash-talk and the humour. The game, with other words. No one ever won an insult war.
So let's play

[Shiber]

UnOrthOdOx, you are overreacting.
I called your middle-ground offers garbage, and I'd be happy to explain myself away from the public forum if you'd like to hear me out. But you have no basis to make allegations against the other members of GS, trust me! I was voicing my own opinion, and it hardly represents the rest of the team. I'd hate it if my friends had to take heat because of something I said that solely represented my own views.
I understand that things are hectic in GoW's private forum, and that this whole ordeal may be very emotionally exhausting. I do allow wild emotions to take control over me from time to time too; believe me, when it comes to self-restraint, I'm far from perfect.
Please, if you want to talk, take a few moments and then PM me. If you don't, I understand, and I won't pester you about this again.

[Arrian]

That's not true, UnO (GS didn't intend to negotiate). You may choose not to believe me, but we were open to negotiation - within reason (ah, that's the rub).

What was offered us, however, simply wasn't viable. If you looked at it from our perspective, surely that's obvious.

Frankly, we found the original offer (hey, GS, send your army over, help us destroy RP 3 - 1, but you don't get to keep any cities on Bob) insulting, but agreed to listen further - largely because of you. But it became more and more clear that the gap was too big. Meanwhile, RP contacted us with a different, and ultimately better, offer.

Anyway, like I said, I'm sorry if you feel your efforts were wasted. From what I know of internal GS discussions, that isn't true, even if your mission ultimately failed.

-Arrian

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Deleted.

[Shiber]

Panzer, Vondrack, Tiberius and anyone else who shares the opinion that bickering and bitterness have no room in the public forum: if I started a petition to object insult wars, mud slinging and any other unsportive behavior and to encourage good humor and friendly trash-talking, would you sign it?

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
Roleplay and Gathering Storm haven't been able to do this, they historically only negotiate for themselves and their deals have typically been extremely one-sided in their favor.

I don't see how GS and RP's current arrangement (whatever the hell that is) could be extrememly one-sided in both our favours. Clearly at least one of us is willing to compromise on something.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Deleted.

[vondrack]

Sure, I would sign a petition - but what would it change? There will always be personal emotions involved. We all need to keep learning to distinguish between ingame treachery and/or "evil" vs. outgame personal attacks/insults - I do not really believe any petition will change much in this aspect.

What about starting every post in a "hot" thread like this one with: "I realize this is a game. The other guy I am responding to is a fine lad/lass and I know that whatever sounds insulting to me was quite likely meant only as an ingame "roleplaying" (Copyright © 2002-2003 The Roleplay Team ? - ask some lawyer if this suffices... ). My response, which follows, is also to be understood as an ingame roleplay:

And do not copy it! Woodpeck it every time! I guess many of the posts would not get posted at all, others might look different...

And as someone else noted few posts above - the whole problem is that many of us try to "justify" their ingame deeds, claiming moral high ground... which in turn inevitably casts bad light at the "other side", which in turn counters by showing how "immoral" the fist party actually is and... I do not think any team in this game can claim moral high ground (not even Lego!). And after all, I do not think we WANT anyone to HAVE moral high ground - it is bad for fun...

Gee, I really hate these party smilies... they break the post formatting so badly...

[Jon Shafer]

Bah... quit with the long posts and put up your dukes and pass on the save!

It will be glorious!