The Glory of Manifestos

[Arrian]

I read it, UnO. Doesn't change my confusion.

Anyway, Shiber brought up something I forgot to mention: 'poly's downtime definitely threw a wrench in the works. A couple of us kept discussions going over at MZO, but not enough, and without access to our 'poly forum, it was tough. Those discussions were military-heavy anyway, as Theseus and I were two of the four main participants.

Anyway, I'm sorry you felt slighted by our screwup. Our bad.

-Arrian

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Arrian
I read it, UnO. Doesn't change my confusion.

My problem was never about what has happened, deception or otherwise, it was about being ignored. Yes, poly was down. Often. I understand that. But we are talking being ignored over the space of three in-game turns. That was...annoying. Especially when I knew that ND and RP had at least been contacted in that time.

[Arrian]

I've apologized for our unresponsiveness, though I didn't think it's as bad as you portray it (three turns?).

That's about all I can do.

-Arrian

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Deleted.

[FrustratedPoet]

*sigh*

Has this game really gone so low?

**** this for a laugh.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
My problem was never about what has happened, deception or otherwise, it was about being ignored. Yes, poly was down. Often. I understand that. But we are talking being ignored over the space of three in-game turns. That was...annoying. Especially when I knew that ND and RP had at least been contacted in that time.

UnO, I was in daily contact with members of GoW. You were not being ignored. I am sorry if you felt that way.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Arrian
That is my understanding of it. I distinctly recall someone complaining that we really needed to send a note to GoW... and frankly I'm kinda annoyed it never happened.

Same here... I think I complained... but as I didn't had the time to do it myself (nor was I really entitled too), and as it was a very hectic period for us, it got lost. My apologies

DeepO

[HarryH]

At least these threads give me something to read while I am waiting for the save to come around again. Although I would rather be reading The Trappings of War.

[Beta]

Originally posted by Shiber
UnOrthOdOx,

We had to keep up GoW's doubts of whether we are committed to helping RP or whether we can be persuaded out of it. We couldn't have just walked up to you and said - No, we are going to help RP and we're going to war with GoW if we have to and there's little that you can offer. That would have kinda ruined the element of surprise, now wouldn't it?

So, the only way we could see to achieve this, to basically diplomatically outmaneuver GoW after it has outmaneuvered us, is by deceiving you.

Beta smiles to himself, and whispers..."Ah Grasshopper, you have learned well."

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by nbarclay


To the best of my knowledge, the closest thing to a "message" we sent to ND indicating our support for RP was when we started accepting cities from RP, and that was a "message" you could see as well. We considered it to our advantage to keep that "message" ambiguous rather than telegraph our plans beyond what was inherent in our accepting RP cities.

Ambiguous? That message made your plans as ambiguous as an open book.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by notyoueither


UnO, I was in daily contact with members of GoW. You were not being ignored. I am sorry if you felt that way.

To set the record straight, if it wasn't me bugging you, you would have never answered me.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Master Zen
Ambiguous? That message made your plans as ambiguous as an open book.

Which happens to be why I sorta lost it when I found out about that PM...

[BigFree]

MZ: You are complaining to GS about the "spirit" of a NAP you had with them when you should look at your own actions against RP, a team you had a NAP with, before you complaign any further to GS or the world at large.

GoW marched a huge stack of Rider's towards RP's border's with the full intent of crossing and attacking RP when the NAP expired. Now, when those troops left GoW territory and headed for RP territorry; wan't that a 'hostile act' towards RP? I mean the NAP was still in effect, but GoW knew full well that they were going to be used in attacking RP cities.

To me, the spirit of a NAP is not violated when you take no actions whatsoever that can be contrued by the other team as hostile. Perhaps all NAP's in the future can be worded to include more circumstances. But, how would they be determined? Basically each team has to trust the other team on a personal level, rather than an in-game level.

Panzer32: The 'mistake' of not declaring war in-game was not exactly a mistake by your team. We all know that if you declare war on another team while your troops are outside of your border's, you will get some unhappiness due to war weariness; weariness that compounds over time. It was a logical step by GoW to not declare war on RP until it needed to do so; but please be honest with your reasons for not doing so. The fact that GoW had decalred war on RP only in the forums was well documented by both teams long ago.

[Hot_Enamel]

Originally posted by BigFree
MZ: You are complaining to GS about the "spirit" of a NAP you had with them when you should look at your own actions against RP, a team you had a NAP with, before you complaign any further to GS or the world at large.

What NAP ???

[Hot_Enamel]

I started explaining why I would not be a part of Shibers petition...but then just got into a rant that is better placed in this trashing thread

Sorry Shiber

So .. I repost here, to give the GS/RP members fair chance to reply without clogging up shibers thread with trash talking



....Blah Blah Blah.....

Some posters need to be brought back in line.

In recent events, we have a team who repeats over and over and over again, that they will win this game using an honour code that puts them above every other team.
When really, they are opportunistic as the rest of us.
The GS honour code aint worth spitting on, and GoW's mistake, was to believe that they would honour the spirit of their agreements.

Had GoW an agreement with "Mr Loophole" himself (aka Togas) we would of half expected some sort of backstab. For example, when it was suddenly dawning on RP that GoW may go to war with them, they hastily tried to negotaite a NAP. Even with our riders advancing towards their lines, they still tried to screw us by inserting a paragraph that required GoW to acknowledge that RP had legal ownership to half the continent. We expect this from RP. It is how they have been treating us for most of the game. It is one of the many reasons why we attacked. I would rather not play a game where I have to spend a whole evening studying proposals for any clauses.

Anyway .. I want to have the right to flame every GS member that deems it necessary to bring up their honour code yet again and again and again.