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**Demerzel** · October 30, 2002, 19:45

Originally posted by MarkG

doesn't this kind of strike you as inauspicious?

why? it was most probably just a typo
instead of writing

Code:

if($winner) then goto screen(4355)

someone wrote

Code:

if($winner) then goto screen(4345)

apparently the beta testers usually won or didnt wait for the depressing defeat(when was the last time you waited to see your last city captured?

)

heh generally rather than screen(4355) most would use

#define WINNING_X_SCREEN 1
#define WINNING_Y_SCREEN 2
#define LOSING_X_SCREEN 3

then use

if ( position == WIN_X )
callScreen( WINNING_X_SCREEN );
else if ( position == LOSE_X )
callScreen( LOSING_X_SCREEN );

makes "simple typos" of 4345/4355 a lot easier to avoid

but i agree most testers will avoid certain situations unless otherwise told too. however that inclination makes them bad testers, when the whole point of testing is to cover the whole spectrum of possible choices.

**Adm.Naismith** · October 30, 2002, 19:49

Originally posted by MarkG

doesn't this kind of strike you as inauspicious?

why? it was most probably just a typo

apparently the beta testers usually won or didnt wait for the depressing defeat(when was the last time you waited to see your last city captured?

)

Sorry MarkG, as long as I respect you, this time I think you are trying to substain that the sun raising west is just a typo!

It doesn't matter if a player stop the game before ending. It matters a lot (in fact is unacceptable in business software) that a whole "tester team" stop the test before they finished the assigned "check list".

What a pity will be if the game is rushed again (disclaimer: I haven't bought it, so I judge from post I'm reading here). You know, MBytes of slow and expensive download patch right before the game hit the shelves? In every other business Firaxis should be forced to send a free patched CD to every consumer and to retire from the market and replace the CD in every game box still on the shops.

Software industry: you can't live with it, still can't live without it.

**MarkG** · October 30, 2002, 19:49

you got agree though that it takes a lot of devotion to good testing to continue playing a lost game

**Inverse Icarus** · October 30, 2002, 19:54

Originally posted by MarkG
you got agree though that it takes a lot of devotion to good testing to continue playing a lost game

i've done it, and i'd expect my testers to do it

**MarkG** · October 30, 2002, 19:54

Adm.Naismith, "other industy" arguments? how about the "if it was a car" argument?

an a 7mb download is not expensive to people who will spend hundreds of hours playing online

again, i explained why the patch was released that early. there is no rush, no secret infogrames blackmail...

**Demerzel** · October 30, 2002, 19:56

Originally posted by MarkG
you got agree though that it takes a lot of devotion to good testing to continue playing a lost game

I certainly wouldn't want to play a depressing situation to the end but as a tester I would, because I've worked in the game industry and seen bugs be discovered by a dedicated tester that otherwise might have sneaked through.

having said that, programmers don't like bugs being found in their code ( I don't for sure ) and I've been scowled at by a colleague for finding a three year old bug in the code by simply scanning through it to get a handle on what I might be working on in the future.

yes bugs happen but good testers take what they are doing seriously and put fun aside often enough to do what is necessary to find bugs. however bugs do slip through, it's as natural as MicroSoft write sh*te code.

**MarkG** · October 30, 2002, 19:59

Demerzel, whatever
we're only arguing cause we dont have the game yet anyway

**Adm.Naismith** · October 30, 2002, 20:03

Originally posted by MarkG
you got agree though that it takes a lot of devotion to good testing to continue playing a lost game

Yeah, the same devotion we must have to work every day, also every day that's not the day of the paycheck!

(because Firaxis have professional tester, not only free beta, haven't they?)

**Demerzel** · October 30, 2002, 20:03

hehe I'm trying to be the devil's advocate since I'm not going to buy PtW.

**MarkG** · October 30, 2002, 20:12

perhaps we should take one of those professional testers and give him a good public spanking....

or have Sid give up a month's pay to charity in order to give an example of proper corporate ethics

**Demerzel** · October 30, 2002, 20:14

Originally posted by MarkG
perhaps we should take one of those professional testers and give him a good public spanking....

or have Sid give up a month's pay to charity in order to give an example of proper corporate ethics

sheesh stop thinking of PR stunts to boost apolyton hits...

**Ozymandias** · October 30, 2002, 20:15

Originally posted by MarkG

doesn't this kind of strike you as inauspicious?

why? it was most probably just a typo
instead of writing

Code:

if($winner) then goto screen(4355)

someone wrote

Code:

if($winner) then goto screen(4345)

apparently the beta testers usually won or didnt wait for the depressing defeat(when was the last time you waited to see your last city captured?

)

Two comments, one serious, one not --

1. QC is QC

2. Okay, so now the goats are a lot less nervous re: future augury (cf. my first post)

Abraxas,

Oz

**Adm.Naismith** · October 30, 2002, 20:25

Originally posted by MarkG
Adm.Naismith, "other industy" arguments? how about the "if it was a car" argument?

As you like, sir: here in Italy we had few weeks ago some thousand cars (an old model) recalled to the factory - the assistance points - to have a free repair of an old problem that can cause trouble to the passenger. Some years ago, my TV was inspected and a component replaced free because the manufactured discovered it was defective...

an a 7mb download is not expensive to people who will spend hundreds of hours playing online

This could be a good point, but I'm considering to buy PTW as a "solo" expansion, for give a try to turnless and simultaneous turn mode...
Anyway I'll left this point to you.

guest 1:1 host

again, i explained why the patch was released that early. there is no rush, no secret infogrames blackmail...

You explained that the game production cycle is longer than patch discovery and solving...

OK, I'll stop my "almost ranting" posts here: feel free to use your right to reply, but please don't take offence if I'll close here my activity on this "patch" debate.

**Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS** · October 30, 2002, 20:31

* Fixed bug that caused players to win when they, in fact, lost.

Sigh.
You guys read way too much into this. At one point, with both Mass Regicide and Regicide enabled, if you lost a king on the first turn of the game, you got the popup saying "Congratulations! You've Won" and then the game crashed. It's not nearly as dumb as the readme makes it sound.
Sheesh!

**Demerzel** · October 30, 2002, 20:36

Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS

Sigh.
You guys read way too much into this. At one point, with both Mass Regicide and Regicide enabled, if you lost a king on the first turn of the game, you got the popup saying "Congratulations! You've Won" and then the game crashed. It's not nearly as dumb as the readme makes it sound.
Sheesh!

ooh, sack the readme writer!

still sounds comical in the win but not win stakes

in my gaming programming days, i remember a time when we used bugtraq(?) and we got 3,000 odd issues listed in the d/base over a month or so. pity that half the things the twenty odd testers brought up were either their problems caused by tjheir own ignorance(RTFM), questioning the unit data or were their suggestions for improvements. still they caught a lot of things we'd not have found otherwise.

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