Oppositions to Arabs

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Caliban

Germany and France are just the best and most common examples for this history of wars...

Yep, that's why I find it ironic ...

Part of my point is that "over-crowding" can be a GOOD thing, simulating history with reasonable accuracy, as long as proper care -- and playtesting! -- are given to situations where many neighbors are in close contact.

-- In short, I believe we are in complete agreement.

-O.

[Alireza1354]

Re: pawns

Originally posted by roalan
Pawns is correct. The Arabs use the Palentines as pawns they really do not care or like them. Jordan and Syria smashed them in war when they felt threatened by them. But I fell it goes back further then 1948 .something started it and it came long after the exodus. Wish I knew.

I am an Arab from Morocco and I care about all muslims, not only the Arabs. The inter-arabian wars (and it weren't so many like the uncountable wars of Europe) were practically all wars between governments.
No race hates another in the world of Islam. That's a decease typical to westerners.

Well there is another development going on in the islamic world.

No longer will we abide by the system which you forced upon us.

No longer will there be artificial nationalities YOU made up to divide us.

Soon, we muslims will unite politically and economically "und dann wird es wirklich loss gehen."

[roalan]

Muslims

Great news good to hear the Sunni's now love the ****es and all the Kurd Moslims.Peace on Earth at last..Every one loves everyone ..

[Alireza1354]

Sunnism and shi'ism only tears us apart.

There will only be islam.

Yes, I hope that a united, stabile, free and prosperous muslimworld will contribute positively to the world.

We aren't there yet, but we are coming and there is no way back.

[roalan]

Dreams

Dream on. Who will be the Boss Saddam-The guy in Syria-or Egypt, or some new dictator? It will never happen in our life time that is a guarantee.

[Alireza1354]

Who knows if it will happen ...

Saddam may burn in hell, and his creators in Washington too.

We are hard underway and no-one will stop us, no pentagon and certainly NO sharons or Saddams.

As the timespan is concerned.. according to political en economical analysts Asia is passing the west by slowly but surely. We muslims will profit from this shift of power.

As for ourselves, we want to work together and we are. Step by step the international and intra-national situations in the muslim world are shifting and maturing to a better alternative.

Iran is reforming, Iraq will soon change, the Qatari are expirementing with the freedom of speech, the arab states are growing to eachother, the south asian muslimstates are cristallyzing their plans for a common market, central asia is enstrengthening their bonds with the middle east., Lybia is investing in black africa and we have good bonds with China, south America and Europe.

Furthermore there is a frustrated Russia for loosing its position to the USA and there is an re-orienting Israel which will sooner or later make peace with us so we can live in harmony like we did for centuries with muslim spain as our great nostalgic legacy. Israel will in the long term be our Hong Kong.



As for Iraq..

Remember these words...

I will predict what will happen.

The puppetregime of Saddam will fall.

Iran (USA's greatest enemy) will become stronger cause the shi'ites of Iraq will seek for intensive cooperation with Iran. The reformers in Iran will be enstrengthened by the incoming Iraqi's and the fundamentalist regime will fall and will be followed by pragmatist nationalists who are very very very sceptic about the USA with the difference that they pose a greater threat to the USA and her interests cause they arent such idiots like the fundamentalists and know what they are doing. You will hear alot from Iran in the future

Turkey (USA's greatest ally after Israel in the region) will destabilize, cause the Kurds of Iraq will become autonomous and Turkeys Kurds will seek for unity with the new Kurdistan. That will enhance islamic powers in Turkey to emerge and will urge the Turks to have stronger bonds with the middle east in order to ensure its existence. Kurdistan will have an anti-USA but pro-Europe policy and will have major potentials. All Iraqi oil lies in Kurdistan in the oil-fields of Kirkuk.

[Alireza1354]

Who knows if it will happen ...

Saddam may burn in hell, and his creators in Washington too.

We are hard underway and no-one will stop us, no pentagon and certainly NO sharons or Saddams.

As the timespan is concerned.. according to political en economical analysts Asia is passing the west by slowly but surely. We muslims will profit from this shift of power.

As for ourselves, we want to work together and we are. Step by step the international and intra-national situations in the muslim world are shifting and maturing to a better alternative.

Iran is reforming, Iraq will soon change, the Qatari are expirementing with the freedom of speech, the arab states are growing to eachother, the south asian muslimstates are cristallyzing their plans for a common market, central asia is enstrengthening their bonds with the middle east., Lybia is investing in black africa and we have good bonds with China, south America and Europe.

Furthermore there is a frustrated Russia for loosing its position to the USA and there is an re-orienting Israel which will sooner or later make peace with us so we can live in harmony like we did for centuries with muslim spain as our great nostalgic legacy. Israel will in the long term be our Hong Kong.



As for Iraq..

Remember these words...

I will predict what will happen.

The puppetregime of Saddam will fall.

Iran (USA's greatest enemy) will become stronger cause the shi'ites of Iraq will seek for intensive cooperation with Iran. The reformers in Iran will be enstrengthened by the incoming Iraqi's and the fundamentalist regime will fall and will be followed by pragmatist nationalists who are very very very sceptic about the USA with the difference that they pose a greater threat to the USA and her interests cause they arent such idiots like the fundamentalists and know what they are doing. You will hear alot from Iran in the future

Turkey (USA's greatest ally after Israel in the region) will destabilize, cause the Kurds of Iraq will become autonomous and Turkeys Kurds will seek for unity with the new Kurdistan. That will enhance islamic powers in Turkey to emerge and will urge the Turks to have stronger bonds with the middle east in order to ensure its existence. Kurdistan will have an anti-USA but pro-Europe policy and will have major potentials. All Iraqi oil lies in Kurdistan in the oil-fields of Kirkuk.

The falling apart of Iraq will further widen the gap between Arabs and westerners.

Furthermore, Iraqi scientists will go to other Arab countries and bring their knowlegde with them hahah


Iraq will become a federation enstrangthening other countries and radically changing the outlook of the middle east and all will be against USA interests. It will only make us stronger.

[roalan]

Muslims

Heard it all before.When the oil gives out or when big business deceides to develope a substitute most of these countries will be selling sand.All the $ they have to buy arms will dry up and the idea will be on the scrap heap of history like all other ideas of world domination. Do not hold your breath waiting for the great day to arrive. The Muslims accepting Israel as a partner would be nice but that to will never happen,if it was going to happen the hate would not run so deep as it does today. All pipe dreams.

[roalan]

repeat

I noticed that in your repeat message you left out a few things ,like Israel being your Honk Kong etc.Change your mind? Like all the past history with the Mid east -they never get their act together, That is why they will never rule the world. Thart doesn't include how is going to be the BIG BOSS. After you are done killing each other to see who will be the BIG BOSS there won't be enough power left to conquer anything.

[Ozymandias]

Re: Re: pawns

Originally posted by Alireza1354 I am an Arab from Morocco and I care about all muslims, not only the Arabs. The inter-arabian wars (and it weren't so many like the uncountable wars of Europe) were practically all wars between governments.
No race hates another in the world of Islam. That's a decease typical to westerners.

Well there is another development going on in the islamic world.

No longer will we abide by the system which you forced upon us.

No longer will there be artificial nationalities YOU made up to divide us.

Soon, we muslims will unite politically and economically "und dann wird es wirklich loss gehen."

Well, I'm an American from New York and I care about all people, everywhere. And no I'm not trying to be "holier than thou" -- just think of it as my own religious belief.

I deduce from your comments that you believe that there is an underlying and unifying sentiment to "Islam" that is masked by "false" governments ruling artificial terriorial divisions by rulers of suspect legitimacy. That the "Islamic street" is the same in Aceh as the Atlas Mountains.

I implore you to think about this QUESTION, and NOT the answer, very hard: who should have succeeded Mohammed, the "elected" Caliphs or the heirs of Ali?

--No matter what anyone in particular feels, Sunnis have been fighting Shias since the 7th Century without any external encouragement and, last I checked, continue to do so today.

Libya against Chad; Libya against Egypt. Iraq against Kuwait. Iraqi against Iraqi. Egypt et. al. against Iraq because of Kuwait. Then of course Turks and Arabs got along so well together until 1918.

And before there were these artificial nations -- and prior to the dramatic expansion of the Seljuk sultanate in the 11th century -- caliphate warred with emirate, and soldiers did as they have always done.

Did that mean that these warring "peoples" hated each other? -- Hopefully not, and a lack of overwhelming hatred would hardly have been a unique phenomenon -- consider the bloody trenches of the western front of WWI, when soldiers simply stopped fighting one Christmas to exchange gifts and socialize with the "enemy". And then went back to killing each other the next day. Clearly hatred at work. (Is there a "smiley" for sarcasm?)

World views -- the individual constituents of culture, of what we assume and thereby act upon -- are effected by every aspect of our lives, every love and hate, every truth and falsehood, every sin and virtue. By religion, nation, language, local custom, etc. etc. etc.

Focusing on religion, there appears to be no more of a plurality among the 6 billion or so of us to "reunite" Islam than there is to reunify Christianity under the Pope.

Regarding "nation" itself, it's being re-evaluated, BTW, pretty much everywhere, and in every venue, these days. Some speak of (to quote the title of a recent book) "Sovereign Individuals". Others of the Christian Rapture. Others of One World Government. Others of "corporate republics". Some are born of hope, others of fear, others of greed. All suspect that we are living in a time where nations are too big to handle some incredibly important issues and yet too small to handle others.

Honestly, my friend (kindly forgive me if my addressing you so strikes you as in any way inappropriate) one people harboring a uniform hatred for another is a battle fought within every heart, not just of those who revere Allah. Sometimes the winners of this inner war for our greatest humanity are, without question, followers of Islam. Other times, they are unquestionably not.

To presume that we, as a species, might transcend our tribal wars is extremely noble. To think that any particular Tribe-Civ-Nation-Culture-Religion-Government-Whatever can do so has been the bases of the overwhelming majority of our most horrific wars and atrocities.

-- OK, one personal comment: concluding with a quote in German when there are so many apt and holy words in the Koran seems to suggest that it might be time for a long talk with a Mullah.

Salaam,

Ozymandias

[Alireza1354]

Re: Muslims

Originally posted by roalan
Heard it all before.When the oil gives out or when big business deceides to develope a substitute most of these countries will be selling sand.All the $ they have to buy arms will dry up and the idea will be on the scrap heap of history like all other ideas of world domination. Do not hold your breath waiting for the great day to arrive. The Muslims accepting Israel as a partner would be nice but that to will never happen,if it was going to happen the hate would not run so deep as it does today. All pipe dreams.

There is the "oil dries up" cliche again hahahahha

There is enough oil for another 150 years or so, and there is even more in central asia. Predictions are that u will only be more dependent on muslims than before. (thanks to Central Asia)

The developing of a substitute energy source is deliberately postponed cause world industry would need ages to adjust. Maybe the west could do it fairly fast (like 100 years) but the market of the west (mostly non-western countries) wouldnt.

As the weaponbuying is concerned, its not about the weapons, its about the technologies. And the economies of the oil producing countries are shifting toward technology, financial and service production and that in a political and economic cooperatioon (GCC) they are not standing still. So are the rest of us. Now you may dream away in your naiveness and plain hill billy jim the Texan's view of the world, that will only simplify our advancement. Bush is sent by ALLAH, he is a real BLESSING to us muslims!

And Israel. We are 1 family torn apart by England and the USA. Jews will never forget blue eyed westerners were almost going to whipe them out. They wont forget that we have the same father (Abraham) too!

its only a matter of time before Jews and muslims will unite and hold the fire-starter in the world responsible.

Long Live Israel

Long Live Islam

[roalan]

Muslims

I am glad to see a Muslim say that Israel is a brother and we do not hate them.That is a first. But what the west will do if the Muslim world starts to get to powerful is attack and destroy or occupy the oil fields,and over throw any leader who stands in the way. The West inc. USSR and China will never let the Muslim world get strong enough to harm us. I do not think you will like Bush when he attacks before Iraq can use any Nukes. In the ling run the west has the power and the nukes to make sure the Muslims can not over power us.That is just a fact of life.

[Alireza1354]

Re: repeat

Originally posted by roalan
I noticed that in your repeat message you left out a few things ,like Israel being your Honk Kong etc.Change your mind? Like all the past history with the Mid east -they never get their act together, That is why they will never rule the world. Thart doesn't include how is going to be the BIG BOSS. After you are done killing each other to see who will be the BIG BOSS there won't be enough power left to conquer anything.

That is bull of coarse.

The Middle East has a long recorded history and that is the only reason why we know so much about its wars.

But the stabile periods of our beautiful region are much longer. The middle east has a history of large empires uniting its people like unseen in the most of human history.

If there are killers, they mostly came from outside.

Arab-Israeli conflict is nothing but a family problem.

Nothing in comparison to inter-european wars of hate and destruction.

[Traelin]

Originally posted by Alireza1354
Iran is reforming, Iraq will soon change, the Qatari are expirementing with the freedom of speech,

Great. Freedom of speech is something we Westerners discovered hundreds of years ago. Glad to know Qatar may actually leave the 16th century and join the 21st.

[Alireza1354]

Re: Muslims

Originally posted by roalan
I am glad to see a Muslim say that Israel is a brother and we do not hate them.That is a first. But what the west will do if the Muslim world starts to get to powerful is attack and destroy or occupy the oil fields,and over throw any leader who stands in the way. The West inc. USSR and China will never let the Muslim world get strong enough to harm us. I do not think you will like Bush when he attacks before Iraq can use any Nukes. In the ling run the west has the power and the nukes to make sure the Muslims can not over power us.That is just a fact of life.

The west cannot simply do that. It will not happen overnight that the muslimworld will grow. Its a long process of development in different ways and regions, not to be sabotaged and by which the west might have many interests. Not to forget other lands which have an interest in a united and stabile market in the middle east like Asia.. Furthermore, China and Russia (USSR doesnt exist anymore) dont see us as a major threat, but as potential friends against a greater threat, and that is U. O and Iraq has no nukes, do you really believe that? hahah and its technologies are long proliferated to some crucial other muslim countries.

As for Israel, that is my brother you are talking about. Why are u so astonished>