new government types

[LordImpact]

well, in true practice, a representitive government is what the united states and most other "democracies" have. It is actually the system that a republic uses. In a true democracy everything would be voted on by the people themselves. This would become EXTREMELY inefficient if a country was of any significant size. If aployton were to impliment the AC style social egeneering system, democracy should be able to be researched around the same time as republic and probably before since democracy was a greek creation long before the founding of the roman republic. Democracy should thus have a higher inefficiency rating, but it would probably be lower on corruption. The governments should also grow with time. New techs should get rid of some of the inefficiencies or possibly add some. I liked the AC system very much and would like to see it incorporated into civ3.

--Impact

[Optimizer]

The Authoritarian structure options could be something like:
Absolutism - one absolute ruler
Aristocracy - elite rule
Limited Democracy - suffrage for property-owning men
Representative Democracy - universal suffrage

[Caliban]

Originally posted by Optimizer
The Authoritarian structure options could be something like:
Absolutism - one absolute ruler
Aristocracy - elite rule
Limited Democracy - suffrage for property-owning men
Representative Democracy - universal suffrage

I'm missing a system where all powers are in the hands of a ruling PARTY (Communism, Fascism...), supported by the military and secret services: a police state.

[hzm]

Originally posted by Dimorier Maximus
I think social engineering is Civ4 stuff, but what the heck, I'll throw out my ideas for it:

Authoritarian Structure:
Chieftan (no tech required)
Imperial (available with Monarchy tech)
Representative (available with Republic tech)
Democratic (available with Democracy tech)

Economic Structure:
Primitive (no tech required)
Free Market (available with Economics tech)
Command (same as planned, available with Communism tech)
Green (available with Recycling tech)

Religious Structure:
Ancestral (no tech required)
Polytheistic (available with Polytheism tech)
Monotheistic (available with Monotheism tech)
Secular (available with Scientific Method tech)

City Structure:
Tribal (no tech required)
Colonial (available with Magnetism tech)
Federation (available with Democracy tech)
Centralized (available with Monarchy tech)

All these different choices would have their ups and downs, but you would most likely want to get out of the default choices ASAP.

For example, Green would be great for cutting down on pollution, but it would suck for your productivity and commerce. Democratic would be great for a peaceful, scientific, cultural civilization, but beware of the war weariness if you pick a fight. Free Market would work wonders for your commerce, but your happiness would take a hit. Monotheism would be good for happiness, but it would hurt your science output.

As far as Civ3 goes, I think the only governments missing are Theocracy and Fascism. I plan on submitting them to Firaxis for inclusion in Play the World. Now I just need to go to the editor and make them.

I didn't like the idea of a true demacracy, but then decided I liked it. I should though be competely unviable until later, then only a good option much later.

I also think there should be more city structure options.

Originally posted by Optimizer
The Authoritarian structure options could be something like:
Absolutism - one absolute ruler
Aristocracy - elite rule
Limited Democracy - suffrage for property-owning men
Representative Democracy - universal suffrage

I find this comprehensive, except of course absence of police state. Perhaps an assorted city-state government?

[Caliban]

Mono- and polytheism not really represent different systems with different advantages/disadvantages.

I support my own "Fascism" option (what else) as it gives you a SUBSTITUTE for religion. In a fascist system there are still practised religions (Christianity/Hitler) but they are suppressed by the ruling system and powerless.

And, as a Civ player, I like to supress religion...

In game terms: All your temples and cathedrales keep their effects, BUT during Fascism, you cannot build them.
They would also produce no culture points. Only Colosseums could be built.

Wow, too much thinking for now...

[Dimorier Maximus]

You evil suppresser!

Anyways, inspired by this thread, I made a mod that has added three new governments to Civ3: Fascism, Theocracy, and Corporate Rebublic. I also tweaked the other governments. The link is in my signature or here.

[Caliban]

To make things more complicated, here is what my options would look like:

POLITICAL SYSTEM:

NONE (Standard Tile Penalty, high corruption and waste rate, no war weariness, no unit upkeep up to 4 units per town/city/metropolis, military police limit: 3, darft rate: 2, assimilation rate: 0%, forced labor)
MONARCHY (made available by: Monarchy; problematic corruption and waste rate; no war weariness; no unit upkeep up to 2/4/8 units per town/city metropolis, military police limit: 2, draft rate: 2, assimilation rate: 10%, paid labor, veteran diplomats and veteran spies)
DEMOCRACY (Republic; low corruption and waste rate, low war weariness, 1 gold upkeep per unit, draft rate: 1, assimilation rate: 20%, paid labor, elite diplomats), trade bonus = + 1 commerce on squares that already produce at least two commerce)
POLICE STATE (Nationalism; low corruption and waste rate, no war weariness, no unit upkeep up to 4/8/12 units per town/ city/ metropolis,military police limit: 5, draft rate: 3, assimilation rate: 1%, forced labor, elite spies, cities cannot grow beyond size 18, all larger cities shrink when police state is implemented)

ECONOMICAL SYSTEM

NONE
FREE MARKET (Economy; large cities produce extra commerce, lower corruption rate (just like the „commercial“ civ special ability), one content citizen in each city becomes unhappy (because of unemployment), + 5% total income per turn (up to 50 gold, „Wall Street“-effect), + 1 gold unit upkeep)
PLANNED (Communism; corruption and waste rate is the same for each city (communal), banks (as well as stock exchanges?) only increase city income by 25%, worker rate + 50%, factories and manufacturing plants cost no maintenance, resources iron and coal are always available)
MODERN (Miniaturization; worker rate + 100%, + 1 gold worker upkeep, large cities produce extra shields (just like the „industrious civ special ability), pollution doubled for each city, improvements that fight pollution become useless)

RELIGIOUS SYSTEM

NONE
FUNDMENTALISM (Monotheism; doubles effects of temples and cathedrals (culture and content faces), luxuries lose their effects, luxury rate always is 0%, - 50% science rate, + 4 free units per town/city/metropolis because of fanaticism, decreases war weariness, draft rate + 1)
FASCISM (Nationalism; temples, cathedrals cannot be built and produce no culture points but keep producing content faces, military police limit + 4, - 1 gold upkeep for spearmen, pikemen, musketeers, musketmen, riflemen, infantry and mech. infantry (if higher than 1 gold), courthouses become 25% more efficient, decreases war weariness, Assimilation rate + 5%)
SECULAR (Scientific Method; temples and cathedrals lose all their effects, + 2 content faces in each city with library, + 25% science rate, increases war weariness, output of universities and research labs + 50%, military police limit - 2, draft rate - 1, - 2 free units per town/city/metropolis)

So, what do you think of these modest suggestions?
I’m ready to argue about any one of them...

[Caliban]

Originally posted by Dimorier Maximus
Anyways, inspired by this thread, I made a mod that has added three new governments to Civ3: Fascism, Theocracy, and Corporate Rebublic. I also tweaked the other governments. The link is in my signature or here.

Downloading...

[Dimorier Maximus]

Police state - Modern - Secular.....that is what I would conquer the world with every game.

+1 unit costs for Free Market makes it useless IMHO. It offsets the commercial bonus and the Wall Street bonus when you get 25 units which isn't hard at all to do if you got more than 3 cities.

[hzm]

Why isn't there a moderate religion thing? America isn't secular. I can't go anywhere without seeing someone mention their god (god bless america, in god we trust, one nation under god, jesus this jesus that (imagine how I feel being a member of an atheist religion but still being religious)), and we certainly aren't fundamentalist. Would I set my religous system to none?

[Caliban]

Originally posted by hzm
Would I set my religous system to none?

yes

[Caliban]

Originally posted by Dimorier Maximus
+1 unit costs for Free Market makes it useless IMHO. It offsets the commercial bonus and the Wall Street bonus when you get 25 units which isn't hard at all to do if you got more than 3 cities.

hmhmhm... maybe you're right, but I don't think so...
the commercial bonus should be high enough if you don't build too many units - remember, free market is not a system for WAR, but for peacetime

[Darkworld Ark]

As I see it, Fascism is going to be needed in PtW, since they've said they're going to have a WWII senario. If they don't have Fascism, what government is Germany going to be, they definitly can't be Communist, since along with the Jews, Commies were one of the groups the Nazis persecuted.

[rob.derosa]

Originally posted by NeoStar
You blokes have Buckingham even though you're a democracy!

Umm while we are a democracy, we are also a Constitutional Monarchy, that is why there is a Queen along with Prime Minister. Alot like Australia and Canada who have a prime minister but the Queen as head of state.

[hzm]

Originally posted by Darkworld Ark
As I see it, Fascism is going to be needed in PtW, since they've said they're going to have a WWII senario. If they don't have Fascism, what government is Germany going to be, they definitly can't be Communist, since along with the Jews, Commies were one of the groups the Nazis persecuted.

And why wouldn't they be a despotism?