Useless army

[vmxa1]

I never even make marines, let an army of them.
Anyway MA is modern armour or the last upgrade for tanks. They can attack three times like panzers.
A stack of elite MA's is a GL machine. I have made 6 in one turn and many times got another on defense when they counter attacked. But it is true I was a warmonger. I do feel that PTW has toned it down a bit, not sure how, but it seems that I get alot less then before.

[Theseus]

Abbreviation gibberish? Well then, what's ROFL?

MA = Modern Armor
mp = movement point
GL = Great Leader
3xMA = an Army with three Modern Armors
hp = hit point

The point is, MAs losing a city to Immortals and Longbowmen is absurd... used properly, they should kick mofo @ss, and generate GLs in the bargain.

[vmxa1]

Theseus you know the combat rolls can get ugly, so it could happen. It should not, but as I said I would take no chance. Those 1 move units would be getting a trim on their way in. I would have lots of money so once I saw them coming (way ahead of time), I would have been getting troops bought (MA and Arties). They would have been decimated. Further I do not have lightly defend frontier towns. I get them by conquest, so Iwill have a real army at hand or be clearing out the neighborhood, so no sneak attacks could take place and reducing the culture drag.

[Theseus]

Agreed... my advice above was a bit, hmmm, shortsighted and after the fact.

MAs as an attacking force, with Immortals and LBs as the primary counter-attackers?

Roll over'em. All of them. Powell Doctrine. Buh-bye.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Oy vey. Powell Doctrine again. Here's a scenario I'd like to see: 1 MA vs. 60 Immortals. Just see how crafty you are... (i betcha most people around here could do it).

Well, back to Armies:

I finally built an army in my last game as the Mongols, and though it died in an Indian counter attack, which caused me no small amount of rage, I found I was still able to build the heroic epic, and later, the military academy, and then, armies without a leader!

I still generated far fewer leaders than, IMO, I should have... and I achieved a cultural victory before I had a chance to use that 3-tank army...

...but still, I can now see the utility and use of armies, finally. However, I would venture to say that armies are still little better than huge stacks of troops... to witness their demise in a counterattack is horribly frustrating.

[vmxa1]

I understand the sentiment, but really if you have 3 tanks in a battle and attack an infantry unit in a metro, you may well lose all 3 tanks as individuals, it could go either way.
Now send those 3 tanks as an army and witness the army continue to attack and usually it will prevail under those conditions, not a lock, but a big favorite.
By the time I have MA, I like to have at least 3 armies in the field so I can make the Pentagon and add that fourth unit to my armies. Now a 4 unit MA army of vets/elites are going to win that battle almost every time. It can have up to 20 HP and 3 attacks.
As to an MA against 60 immortals, no thanks. Can I have the 20 turn march that was mentioned and a few bombers? If so then I will do a lot of damage.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I guess my problem is that I play with all victory conditions on, so by the time comes for me to be building MA armies, I generally achieve a cultural victory before I can actually build the dang things.

When I move up in difficulty level, perhaps this will change.

[Mad Bomber]

Yahweh:

turn Off the cultural victory condition, IMO its a very unsatisfying way to win. I have had spaceship victories feel like losses also. I usually play only with Conquest enabled.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
Yahweh:

turn Off the cultural victory condition, IMO its a very unsatisfying way to win. I have had spaceship victories feel like losses also. I usually play only with Conquest enabled.

Now you are talking, conquest and maybe domination, brutal, please no huge maps though.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by vmxa1

Now you are talking, conquest and maybe domination, brutal, please no huge maps though.

Hey to each his own. I could never get a handle on small maps though. Maybe I just hate archer rushes, or the german sneakattacks, or finding out that you are next to the persians and they have iron already hooked up and you are still making warriors. I hate to quote a racist lunatic, but I need breathing room.

[badams52]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
When I move up in difficulty level, perhaps this will change.

When I first saw your statement, this is what I thought. I used to win most often by cultural victories, till I started playing higher levels.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber


Hey to each his own. I could never get a handle on small maps though. Maybe I just hate archer rushes, or the german sneakattacks, or finding out that you are next to the persians and they have iron already hooked up and you are still making warriors. I hate to quote a racist lunatic, but I need breathing room.

I am not fond of small either, but standard works and maybe a large, but Huge is more work than fun playing Conquest.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by vmxa1

I am not fond of small either, but standard works and maybe a large, but Huge is more work than fun playing Conquest.

Absolutely. Cultural I could see turning off, but I'm never even going to attempt to achieve a dom/conq victory on a huge map! And I'm going to keep playing those huge maps. I like the unsolvable conflicts of our actual, huge, Earth... I like even my meglomania to be tempered by corruption, huge oceans, etc.

And besides, I need to sleep sometime.

[Killazer]

I'm playing a game now where its ended up that all countries have gotten eliminated by my the Japs and the AI Bablyonians. Babs have a huge continent to themselves surrounded by ocean and I have one to myself surrounded by ocean. We are about the same land size and we have the same tech. BTw. communism kicks ass in this situation lol. Ive been at war now for 100 yrs with Babs and Commies just luv war no weariness at all (my Democracy had collapsed a while ago) plus its better overall cuz of unit support and distributed corruption (Im at around 700 units now no joke lol). Anyway, I'm beating the Babs but its taking a long long time. They have managed to wipe out one of my beach heads =/

Anyway, Id just say that armies are very very useful. Infantry armies are unbeatable almost by the AI (cuz they cant use arty very well) until armor which is at the point im at now. Just got tanks but the babs have em too. Im hoping that building several 4-unit tank armies will let me start advance at a good pace.

BTW - armies now can indeed blitz I think if they are any fast-moving attack unit. I had cavalry armies earlier and they could blitz-attack. Not sure bout everything else but im sure I was blitz attacking with cavalry armies which is wierd cuz cavalry dont have blitz by themselves.

Anyway armies are useful - im cranking out an army every 5 turns or so now from 1 city so why not use them? Certainly give an edge.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I am coming to see the utility of armies more everyday. I just I just wasn't emphasizing the necessary defence of armies enough before...