Useless army

[Arrian]

1. All in all, how many GLs do you produce in a given game?

2. What % of those GLs go towards armies, as opposed to wonders?

3. When do you build your first army? First chance you get, or do you use the GL on something like the FP, etc?

Totally depends - if the RNG smiles upon me, I may get lots of leaders (in a recent game, I got 9. My records, IIRC, is 12). If it doesn't, I may only get 1 or 2. For a militaristic civ played to maximize the trait, 1-2 is pretty bad.

I just happened to jot down the uses of my leaders in recent 9-leader game...

1) Palace move
2) Army
3) Sun Tzu
4) Sistine
5) Leo
6) Military Academy
7) Universal Suff
8) Hoover
9) unused upon victory

#6 was a bit wierd. He was generated at a time when the only available GW der was Copernicus, and I was halfway done with it. I didn't feel the need to have more armies yet, and I was fighting and had a nifty stockpile of elite Samurai.

In my current game (AU206) I have gotten 2 leaders:

1) Army (mmm, gallic swordsman army, mmm)
2) FP

I decide how to use a leader based upon a number of factors. First: do I have my FP/Palace set up the way I want? Second: do I have the Heroic Epic? Third: what Great Wonders are available? Fourth: how many elite units to I have, and am I using them now or will I be using them soon?

In AU206, my first leader appeared long before I had conquered my way to the spot where I wanted my FP, and I had a number of elite GSs. With elite GSs running around trying to conquer a continent, I felt I could reasonably count on 1 more leader, particularly with the HE. So I went army.

In the 9-leader Japanese game, by the time I generated leader #1, I was close to the city I wanted to move my Palace to, and I really needed to hit that Civ before they got any stronger. As it turned out, I got 2 more leaders prior to the completion of the HE, and then went through a sustained drought while winning battle after battle with my hordes of elite units. By the time the RNG began to favor me again, I had built the big medieval wonders manually (except for SunTzu, clearly).

-Arrian

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Arrian


Totally depends - if the RNG smiles upon me, I may get lots of leaders (in a recent game, I got 9. My records, IIRC, is 12). If it doesn't, I may only get 1 or 2. For a militaristic civ played to maximize the trait, 1-2 is pretty bad.

I just happened to jot down the uses of my leaders in recent 9-leader game...

1) Palace move
2) Army
3) Sun Tzu
4) Sistine
5) Leo
6) Military Academy
7) Universal Suff
8) Hoover
9) unused upon victory

#6 was a bit wierd. He was generated at a time when the only available GW der was Copernicus, and I was halfway done with it. I didn't feel the need to have more armies yet, and I was fighting and had a nifty stockpile of elite Samurai.

In my current game (AU206) I have gotten 2 leaders:

1) Army (mmm, gallic swordsman army, mmm)
2) FP

I decide how to use a leader based upon a number of factors. First: do I have my FP/Palace set up the way I want? Second: do I have the Heroic Epic? Third: what Great Wonders are available? Fourth: how many elite units to I have, and am I using them now or will I be using them soon?

In AU206, my first leader appeared long before I had conquered my way to the spot where I wanted my FP, and I had a number of elite GSs. With elite GSs running around trying to conquer a continent, I felt I could reasonably count on 1 more leader, particularly with the HE. So I went army.

In the 9-leader Japanese game, by the time I generated leader #1, I was close to the city I wanted to move my Palace to, and I really needed to hit that Civ before they got any stronger. As it turned out, I got 2 more leaders prior to the completion of the HE, and then went through a sustained drought while winning battle after battle with my hordes of elite units. By the time the RNG began to favor me again, I had built the big medieval wonders manually (except for SunTzu, clearly).

-Arrian

the most leaders you have had is 12! I thought it would have been higher

There are way's to maximize leaders, there have even been threads on the topic (yes I am too lazy to do a proper search) but I will list a few ways to make sure you get more GL's

1) The first leader should be used for an army and it should be strong enough to insure at least one win. I like 3 Knight armies as my first army. Get the army a victory and you can build the HE, which improves the odds of future leaders.
2) Protect your elites, use them only against targets which you are reasonably sure of sucess. If an elite is badly hurt try to get another unit to the elite to protect it.
3) Use your GL's!! There is no sense in "saving" them as you cannot generate another GL until you have used the current GL. If you don't have something to rush (unlikely in mideival or industrial ages) then build an army. (One exception to this rule is if you are researching tech that leads to a wonder)
4) Leaders increase in freq. during modern age warfare due to the blitz capabilities of armor units, utilize this capability to get an elite in a single turn!!

I have had games in which I have had 15 leaders, most of which go to wonders or palace moves. Although a few do end up as Armies.

[pedrojedi]

Usually I try to make an army of an leader, but, depending of the game conditions, it becomes a fundamental wonder, like the Pyramids or Hoover. Since I like the more "builder-civs" (even though I am a natural warmonger!) like carthagians, babs, egyptians, I usually get few leaders, and each one of them is very well planned... I rarely rush FP or Palace, unless it is of the most important significance, since I like 'till late of the game to decide the best spot for FP.

How many tiles you leave between your palace and FP?

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I would agree with this. I rushed the FP for the first time on my recent Romans game, to make a far away land profitable, and pave the way to future conquests. Normally, I don't mind a longish wait building the FP, especially if the city it's in is secured, or bordered by secure cities.

[Thirgaral]

How many tiles you leave between your palace and FP?

It depends on mapsize...but I try to put them as far from eachother as possible to get out the most of them.

[minke19104]

You'd want one close to Iron Works.. If you ever able to build one.. 120-180 shields/turn city is nuts..

[pedrojedi]

As far as possible, just as I thought. I usually build FP on the opposite side of the continent, compared to the Palace. Never change both to other continents... they usually become my Wastelands - "The land of lawless men and brutal domination, where only the cunniest and strongest survive". Lands of leaders for sure, at least while I still battle for them.

[minke19104]

EDIT: Double Post Demon

[Theseus]

Theseus has entered the building... (the crowds go wild!)

(that was an Elvis reference for the youngsters out there)

Armies...

How do I love thee, let me count the ways.

Ah, screw it, read this:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=46197

I started that thread awhile ago, and frankly should update it for the uses I've found since.

Call me crazy... I am uncomfortable prosecuting offensive or defensive wars without at least two Armies per front.

(Actually, that's also one of the reasons I love mixed-unit Armies... I want the nutcracker punching power, but I also want them to be meaningful defenders.)

There are all sorts of ways to use them... The initial example of using a 3xInfantry Army to attack Infantry in a city was flawed. For those of you still learning to use them, imagine, in the late ancient era, a 2xSword+(1xNM or 1xHoplite) Army, or for that matter a 3xLegion Army, later bolstered by either a MedInf or a Musketman, depending on circumstance... see the power?

The most important rule I would point out from the previous posts in this thread is that mixed-unit Armies should have the same movement. Arrian's example of Riders + Cavs is an excellent example. One I also like, which is pretty common (for me), is a 3xCav Army... bolstered by an MA.

Do you understand how Armies work in combat? Best unit fights first, repeatedly?

And yes... must have HE, must have HE, must have...

[badams52]

Originally posted by Theseus
Theseus has entered the building... (the crowds go wild!)

(snip)

(Actually, that's also one of the reasons I love mixed-unit Armies... I want the nutcracker punching power, but I also want them to be meaningful defenders.)

I always remember it as "Elvis has just left the building."

In thinking about defense, just from the sheer number of hitpoints, some armies don't get attacked by the AI (so you can hide units under them, keep cities from being attacked, etc.). One example I have is an army of 3 cavalry before tanks. The AI refuses to attack a 3 cavalry army till he has tanks, or at least, I've never, ever seen him take it on.

[Theseus]

Yep, combat avoidance is definitely a useful tool.

(You're right about "left"... it just seemed, uh, a good way to open the post)

[Harovan]

Twas about time for you to enter this thread.

[aaglo]

I noticed one special thing about armies:

If you put only amphibious units (Marines) in your army, it still loses its amphibious bonus. Why is that?

It was almost a shock to me when I discovered this 'bug' (or is it a feature).

[badams52]

Sir Ralph: So true...

aaglo: I think for the most part armies are considered like transports without the unload ability, so anything the special units can do, armies can't. That makes me think we should test what special features armies can and can't do.

• I don't think you can airlift them with a helicopter, maybe if you increase the payload of the helicopter you could, but who uses helicopters anyway?
• Pre PTW you can't pillage
• An army of paratroopers won't be able to airdrop.
• An army of marines (as you found out) can't use amphibious assault
• Armies (except through loopholes) can't be upgraded or unloaded.

are there others?

[minke19104]

Originally posted by aaglo
I noticed one special thing about armies:

If you put only amphibious units (Marines) in your army, it still loses its amphibious bonus. Why is that?

It was almost a shock to me when I discovered this 'bug' (or is it a feature).

I'm almost sure I had an army of Marines before and was still able to attack cities.. Maybe my memory is becoming a blur by playing too much Civ3 ......