What is up with all the cheating by the computer

[punkbass2000]

Originally posted by TheStinger
I don't understand why people have a problem with AI"chaeting" the AI can't beat a decent human player without a bit.

look at chess a much simpler game, supercomputers only sometimes beat humans

Actually, I'd bet your average computer could beat almost every human alive. Only some GM's would be able to beat it, I'd bet. Chessmaster 9000 has a rating of 2700+.

[Killerdaffy]

Originally posted by bongo
Not a problem at all but I really like to see a list over AI-'cheats'

I know that there are both science and production bonuses. It will also know the locations of your units and future resources...

What else? Could anyone kindly point me in the right direction for an 'AI-cheat FAQ' ?

While to my knowledge there is no complete list on AI-"cheats", many of them are discussed in various strategy articles. Check here for a list of "must read" threads.

Edited: URL formatting

[werdhertz]

Originally posted by TheStinger
I don't understand why people have a problem with AI"chaeting" the AI can't beat a decent human player without a bit.

look at chess a much simpler game, supercomputers only sometimes beat humans

I`d like to know where you got that information

[ChaotikVisions]

I personally like the fact that the AI cheats, since it makes it put up more of a fight. Of course i'd love it if the AI could put up a good fight with no cheats, but we really don't have that kind AI available yet. So any sort of cheat that'll make it harder to beat without unbalancing things is fine in my book.

[vmxa1]

Did not they say the only cheat in the game is its knowledge of the resources locations?

[Catt]

Originally posted by bongo
Not a problem at all but I really like to see a list over AI-'cheats'

I know that there are both science and production bonuses. It will also know the locations of your units and future resources...

What else? Could anyone kindly point me in the right direction for an 'AI-cheat FAQ' ?

The science and production bonuses, as well as additional handicaps, are laid out in the editor. Just spend some time in the editor (there are human "cheats" on difficulty levels below Regent).

Putting aside the difficulty level handicaps, there is a pretty good compilation of actual AI "cheats" and often-asserted AI "cheats" which have been largely disproved over at CFC. I don't link from one forum to another, but after you've had your fill of 'Poly for the day, you can do a search at CFC for a thread by a poster named "TheNiceOne."

Catt

[badams52]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Did not they say the only cheat in the game is its knowledge of the resources locations?

The one "cheat" I have seen confirmed (and the only one) on this board by Firaxis is that they AI has no "fog of war." If the map is black, it doesn't know what's there, but if it's seen the area then it will always know where all the units are.

[bongo]

Catt , I'm aware that the list of actual 'cheats' is rather short, I just want to see a nice little chart which spells them out, loud and clear. Also including the difficulty-level specific handicaps/bonuses(why spend time with the editor if someone has done that already)

What is CFC?

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by werdhertz


I`d like to know where you got that information

what are you talking about. The information is common knowledge. Depp Blue beat kasparov but then deep Fritz got beat by Kramnick.

So if huge mainframes programmed to play a relativley simple game lose to the best players how is the AI in civ3 gonna cope

[Catt]

Originally posted by bongo
Catt , I'm aware that the list of actual 'cheats' is rather short, I just want to see a nice little chart which spells them out, loud and clear. Also including the difficulty-level specific handicaps/bonuses(why spend time with the editor if someone has done that already)

What is CFC?

I've never seen anyone share a ready-made file that details all of the editor-enabled handicaps (though I've thought of doing that myself once or twice, for just such an occasion). Maybe I'll whip up just such a FAQ re: changes in difficulty level next time I'm stuck with my laptop but in a place inapprorpiate to actually play Civ.

But, spending an hour or so playing around in the editor -- just looking at the available levers, toggles, and choices -- is well worth the time invested. I can pretty much guarantee you that you will learn several things about the game that you didn't know / understand before.

And I've never seen a chart of "cheats."

CFC is Civilization Fanatics Center, or civfanatics.com, another fansite. TheNiceOne's thread that I referenced is the closest thing I've seen to what you're looking for.

Catt

[vmxa1]

Straight out of the PTW guide. The only AI cheat is that it knows the world map. It knows the location and content of every tile. It is affect by the fog of war.
It does not gang up on human players and does not know AI form Human.
Remember that the bonus that the AI has at higher levels are not cheats, they are handicaps.
No combat aids.
So no need for any list. Since it know the location and contents of all tiles, it will know you have left a city unguarded.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Unconquered
I could...

a) Trade more
b) Conquer more
c) Steal more

I still think the AI is too liberal in its trading practices. Most countries would not give away the Techs that make them superior (unless your the US selling secrets to China... China did lose an embassy over it to a rouge cruise missile though.)

You will always fall behind if you don't trade. That applies to the AI as well, so that means it is not a cheat. Indeed, trade has historically been a strong force in the development of new ideas and inventions.

The Americas were isolated by oceans. Sub-Saharan Africa is on a high plateau with rivers generally not navigable from the coast to the interior. These geographic areas of human habitation were left behind of the philosophical and scientific advancement of the Eurasian civilizations.

China stopped trading knowledge in the Middle Ages, and fell behind as a consequence. Japan stopped trading as well, but was forced back open by Europeans, then immediately absorbed the science of the West. They subsequently became a military threat to the established political order.

[Zachriel]

dp

[Peter Triggs]

badams52

About the Firaxis confirmation that the AI has no "fog of war." I missed that; if you can remember where you saw it, could you please post a link. It's not that I doubt you, but that's an *incredible* cheat and I'd like to get the words straight from the horse's mouth.

Thanks,

Peter

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Straight out of the PTW guide. The only AI cheat is that it knows the world map. It knows the location and content of every tile. It is affect by the fog of war.
It does not gang up on human players and does not know AI form Human.
Remember that the bonus that the AI has at higher levels are not cheats, they are handicaps.
No combat aids.
So no need for any list. Since it know the location and contents of all tiles, it will know you have left a city unguarded.

Right! And even with this well-known cheat, the AI plays tactics only about as well as the worst human player, maybe not even that good.

Edit: From my understanding and experience, the AI only knows the Fog of War, not the entire map. See post below.