What is up with all the cheating by the computer

[vondrack]

Pyrkaige, interesting info! I have never felt like messing with the editor, so this sums it up nicely for me. Thanks!

[bongo]

That's it then.


Started the editor for the first time this weekend. One thing that puzzled me a bit was the players bonus vs barbarians, on deity it is 0. Hope this doesn't mean that barbarians will be near invincible. A well, that will never affect me as I'm still fighting at monarch level. Have to admit that monarch is WAY tougher than king on civ2.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by bongo
Started the editor for the first time this weekend. One thing that puzzled me a bit was the players bonus vs barbarians, on deity it is 0. Hope this doesn't mean that barbarians will be near invincible. A well, that will never affect me as I'm still fighting at monarch level. Have to admit that monarch is WAY tougher than king on civ2.

The combat bonus versus barbarians work really as a bonus. On deity, the barbarian units are just like units of another AI civ (the combat strengths conform to the ADM values). On lower levels, your odds of defeating barbarian units rise (they are - even way - more than what would ADM values suggest). That's why slaughtering barbs is much easier than killing non-barbarian units on lower levels...

[bongo]

What a relief That explains why I never had any real trouble with barbarians. They are just too weak. BTW, what will barbarians do if they capture your cities? Raze it? Start producing units? Start a new civ(might be cool)?

[Tiberius]

They don't capture it. They steal money from it (a part of your treasury), and/or kill population and/or destroy the unit/improvement that was being built. I repeat: they do not capture the city.

Edited: ...and, IIRC, the Defense Minister says something like "Sire! The barbarians have sacked our city, stole n money from its treasury and destroyed our work on the spearman. We need to build more military!"

[punkbass2000]

Re: Difficulty level bonuses, cont.

Originally posted by Pyrkaige
AI and player factors: These aren't factors where the AI can get a bonus, but they're on the same screen and deal with difficulty levels so I included them.

IIRC, the bonus that the AI gets for these is that the AI always plays at regent, regardless of the level you are playing.

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Demerzel

With regards to chess AI, the big supercomputers only beat grandmasters because they use a brute force min-max tree based solution. Basically they use their increasing computing power to get better, i.e. sledgehammer to crack a nut. There is no real finesse in a chess program, just running the numbers faster and faster to get a better solution for the next few moves.

Which is my point, you can't expect a PC AI in a complex game like civ to beat a good human player without some help.

[djafrot]

I seriously doubt that. There must be a cheat (like others have said) regarding how much tech they get compared to their size. I've been three times the size of my nearest rival, and only two or three steps ahead of him. Maybe this is because everyone and their dog is trading behind my back. #$#$!

[player1]

As more civs get same tech its price drops.

So this at the end gives a domino effect that everybody gets the tech, even a very weak players.

P.S.
This can help a human if he is the weak player.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by vmxa1
"Straight out of the PTW guide. The only AI cheat is that it knows the world map. It knows the location and content of every tile. It is affect by the fog of war.
It does not gang up on human players and does not know AI form Human.
Remember that the bonus that the AI has at higher levels are not cheats, they are handicaps.
No combat aids."

So no need for any list. Since it know the location and contents of all tiles, it will know you have left a city unguarded.


I posted this before, it is straight out of the PTW strat guide. Unless I miss read it, it says the AI has no black area, it has fog of war. Firaxis as said they same thing on this site beofre, so it is not a case of the book being wrong. If it knows al tiles, it has no black to deal with!

What you are missing is the computer cannot set us a trade route without removing the fog of war. Yes it knows where your cities, units, etc. but must explore so it can trade with you.

[Coracle]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
The computer plays fair up through Regent (actually Regent gets a minor cheat in that the computer can do an AI-AI trade at a loss). In fact, you get major advantages at cheiftain and warlord.

At Regent.

I have seen AI galleys sailing merrily through the oceans, No, they did not have navigation or the Lighthouse.

I have seen AI galleys teleported magically to oceans their own maps say they should not have been able to get to as there is nothing but black between their location and the sea near their homeland.

I have seen invading AI settlers ignore my demands they leave, and then magically teleport themselves to the other side of my civ to set up towns on open tiles they should not even know exist.

I have routinely been blamed for stuff I never did destroying my reputation.

Civs I didn't meet for a thousand years still hated me for some minor thing I did (or even did not do) to another civ.

Civ cities, when a nearby city is razed, keep cranking out settler/soldier combos to try to settle there even during war - which is not only dumb it is a cheat; they never could produce that many settlers.

REX, Rapid Early Expansion, almost certainly includes freebie settlers; there is no way the AI civ could produce that much faster than I can.

The AI sees the entire map AND all my unit military locations ALL THE TIME, and adjusts accordingly.

AI civs work together against the human - why one civ will commit suicide and fight to the death just to weaken the human, resulting in a long tedious war.

Cultural Flipping will destroy the human's entire strategy when a key city suddenly flips to what has become a tiny, defeated civ across a sea. It has happened (search for the "It Finally Happened" thread by Alexman in the Strategy forum).

All these - and others - are in effect cheats at Regent level.

Of course, fans of Firaxis will just call them "quirks" or "concepts". Whatever they are, they stink.

[Zero-Tau]

Originally posted by Coracle
I have seen AI galleys sailing merrily through the oceans, No, they did not have navigation or the Lighthouse.

I have done this myself. Sometimes, you get lucky. Remember, there's only a chance of sinking, so there's no certainity.

I have seen invading AI settlers ignore my demands they leave, and then magically teleport themselves to the other side of my civ to set up towns on open tiles they should not even know exist.

I have seen this myself. Annoying, but it's possible to deal with it. Build a lot of culture, and there's a good chance the town will flip to you.

I have routinely been blamed for stuff I never did destroying my reputation.

Yes. This happens, and it's very annoying. The thing is, whenever a deal is broken prematurely (before 20 turns have passed) it will be assumed to be the fault of the human player. This should be fixed.

Civ cities, when a nearby city is razed, keep cranking out settler/soldier combos to try to settle there even during war - which is not only dumb it is a cheat; they never could produce that many settlers.

Have you done the math to be sure?

REX, Rapid Early Expansion, almost certainly includes freebie settlers; there is no way the AI civ could produce that much faster than I can.

Playing at Regent, I find myself quite able to keep up with AI. There doesn't seem to be any cheating involved. On higher levels, though, the AI does get free settlers, workers, and military units.
Monarch: 2 defensive and 1 offensive unit.
Emperor: 4 defensive and 2 offensive units, and 1 worker.
Deity: 8 defensive and 4 offensive units, 2 workers, and 1 settler.

The AI sees the entire map AND all my unit military locations ALL THE TIME, and adjusts accordingly.

Yes, but it's not very good at strategy. That's why the human can still win. If this was removed, the AI would be absolutely laughable.

AI civs work together against the human - why one civ will commit suicide and fight to the death just to weaken the human, resulting in a long tedious war.

I have never seen this sort of thing. Got a save?

Cultural Flipping will destroy the human's entire strategy when a key city suddenly flips to what has become a tiny, defeated civ across a sea. It has happened (search for the "It Finally Happened" thread by Alexman in the Strategy forum).

Yes, it has happened. And Alexman could have prevented it. The mistake was to guard a very large city with all foreigners with only two units. That was a very bad move, and putting more soldiers into the city could have prevented this entirely.

[punkbass2000]

You get out produced by the AI on Regent?!

It's funny how you try to attribute your poor playing skill to AI cheating.

[Jaybe]

Has anyone heard confirmation that the "Attack Bonus Against Barbarians" also applies to the AI?

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Joseph
What you are missing is the computer cannot set us a trade route without removing the fog of war. Yes it knows where your cities, units, etc. but must explore so it can trade with you.

I am not missing it I just did not bother to list every thing and I have mentioned that before. Anyway it is well known tfat you must have a trade route, the fog of war will be a factor.