I can't believe this..

[Velociryx]

Zach, you hit the nail on the head! Rushing is but one tool in the toolbox. As such....taken by itself....rushing is a tool. A tactic. Not a strategy in its own right.

Strategic USE of the tool, in combination with other tools....now we're talking strategy. But just because I write a bunch of papers 'bout rushing and put them up on a board someplace....that hardly makes my favored tactic a strategy.

As far as developing a "new rush tactic," I don't see anything therein that could be construed as new or original there. That's like painting your old Pinto a different color and telling everyone you have a new car. No...it's the same car with a different coat of paint on it. Same with rushing. Use an Archer, use a Horseman....same basic mechanic.

Again though, as you say, combining the rush (or threat of) with other tools in the toolbox and you get an emerging strategy, but the MP game isn't about that. It's about making a core set of cities, ramping up a military presence while doing so, and bludgeoning your opponent before he does the same to you. Player with the better starting position usually wins (assuming a similar level of skill).

That's about as linear as it gets, IMO.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

JT: I hope you're right! I like the sounds of it! Nothing would please me more than to see an MP game that required something besides linear strategy and thought!

-=Vel=-

[Capt Dizle]

Well, maybe so but thats a usless disagreement.



edit: refering to the tastes great/less filling tactic/strategy debate.

Vel, chill. You know how these MP types are.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by spy14
Pink elephant?? Not been around here for a few days....

See what you miss when you leave.

Anyway, the number-crunchers have tested combat extensively and say the combat results are as according to the civulator.

http://www.columbia.edu/~sdc2002/civulator.html

People do not normally recognize random distributions. It's a bio-psychological effect.

[Capt Dizle]

zack,
Is that a fancy way of saying that if I take out the garbage 23 days in a row and then forget one day, my wife will always say:

"you hardly ever do nothing you lazy bum my mother was right about you"

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by Zachriel


I like that idea. Add a catapult; then you could stagger the forts and still control the frontier.

The cultural border thing would be a problem.

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
This makes me wonder how anything is going to get researched in MP. In SP, I go for the whole 40 turn thing. If we all do that in MP...

uhm, that sounds interesting... early research would be worth it after all (beeline to iron working and wheel and claim the resources ).

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
zack,
Is that a fancy way of saying that if I take out the garbage 23 days in a row and then forget one day, my wife will always say:

"you hardly ever do nothing you lazy bum my mother was right about you"

Yeah, that's pretty much it.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Strategic USE of the tool, in combination with other tools....now we're talking strategy. But just because I write a bunch of papers 'bout rushing and put them up on a board someplace....that hardly makes my favored tactic a strategy.-=Vel=-

Indeed, knowing that HappySunShine was going to rush would allow me to more easily defend. I would be much more worried about defending against Velociryx who may rush -- or may not. I would have to be at least somewhat prepared for the rush, and hopefully Velociryx would feel at least a little threatened by the possibility of a rush by my forces.

[Jon Shafer]

Luckily the rush has been toned down in Civ III as opposed to other games. Unfortunately, since it's not the do-all end-all that it used to be, that makes some people (aka 'veterans') really upset, since it balances things out and they can't win all the time.

Like Vel said, it's more of a tactic now than a game-maker, which makes things more interesting and balanced.

[spy14]

Originally posted by Zachriel


See what you miss when you leave.

Anyway, the number-crunchers have tested combat extensively and say the combat results are as according to the civulator.

http://www.columbia.edu/~sdc2002/civulator.html

People do not normally recognize random distributions. It's a bio-psychological effect.

According to http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3combatcalc.html a battleship attacking an ironclad wins 95% of the time. From my experience i've noted battleship wins 80% of the time. I've only noticed this discrepancy with sea units though, not land based ones. What number crunchers, US or UK version? I dont think anyone is getting their figures wrong, just that people are genuinely getting differant results for some reason

[Jaybe]

Indeed, knowing that HappySunShine was going to rush would allow me to more easily defend. I would be much more worried about defending against Velociryx who may rush -- or may not. I would have to be at least somewhat prepared for the rush, and hopefully Velociryx would feel at least a little threatened by the possibility of a rush by my forces.

Speaking of intent:
After embassies have been created (before espionage): what players would have in their cities or on their borders would be what they WANTED others to see. Those masses of secret units would be hanging out in a military reserve somewhere.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Zachriel
Indeed, knowing that HappySunShine was going to rush would allow me to more easily defend.

You obviously have never played him in Civ II MP.
Knowing it's coming doesn't help much

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Ming


You obviously have never played him in Civ II MP.
Knowing it's coming doesn't help much

MING?! In a Civ 3 forum?! You aren't actually getting interested in PTW are you?

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Ming
You obviously have never played him in Civ II MP.
Knowing it's coming doesn't help much

I just said I could more easily defend -- not that I would actually survive! I am certain that HappySunShine's rush will be wicked.

But if the rush is the only winning tactic in Civ3, and if you can win only by counting tiles and every shield, and packing cities one upon the other with little notice of terrain, and never build a temple, much less a wonder; I would consider the game broken and no longer fun.

If there is no defense to the rush, then Civ ceases being a strategy game.