Still no solution to spearman vs tank problem.

[louiethelesbo]

Tanks can always be defeated by a spearman with a good aim. It is not difficult to throw a nuclear tipped spear into an unsuspecting tank..the results are devastating for the tank. Now play the game and enjoy it.

[Cort Haus]

DU-Spearmen... love it!

[Conqueror]

Originally posted by Grrr
This morning, I attacked Reading, with 20 tanks. They killed the musketmen, and riflemen, and then I lost 4 tanks on 5 spearmen! Is that bad enough for you?

I have tough time believing that, i cant remember ever losing tanks to spearmen, unless, ofcourse you use low health tanks to attack full health elite spearmen.

Lower your difficulty level if you cant handle losing units ?

And dont talk about "but it must be like in real life", would you seriously state that spearmen or other units survive for thousands of years in real life.

[Dom Pedro II]

steelehc : I don't have a screenshot for you, but it DID happen to me once that a Modern Armor was turned back by a spearman... why should you believe me rather than anybody else? Simply because I'm not one of the people attacking the current combat system. It's fine. I like it. The battle was a fluke, and like I said, I was attacking a full-grown city.


To All: BTW, I heard mention of Militia... whatever happened to the Partisan units? I liked those... I think they should be brought back because that way combining that with being unable to use enemy roads/railroads and cultural reversion will make invasions a real pain in the a$$! I'm not being sarcastic either. I like the challenge of it all. I hate when I break the back of my enemy and know that it's only a matter of time.

P.S. I do like the idea of upgrading the unit icon for the Spearman. It could work like the worker and how it changes from era to era. Personally, I thought civilization just should have had the "Man" unit and whatever supplies you give it fluctuates their attack capabilities. I suppose that's the Unit Workshop concept? Ah well, one step at a time.

[Kc7mxo]

I find that the discussion isn't really about a tank losing to a spearman, its about my tank losing to a cavalry, my cavalry losing to spearmen, its about any unlikely event that causes frustration. people simply use the tank vs spearmen as an extreme example.


what always annoyed me about the situation is that Civ2 had the perfect system for dealing with this, and yet Civ3 doesn't use it.

[Cyclotron]

But the civ2 system also meant that any even slightly advanced unit could easily crush its last-era counterparts. True, combat was much closer to real life in Civ2, but in Civ3 you can no longer smash the computer because of just a slight lead in tech... a more balanced game.

It's one of the trade offs... for the most part, the spearman vs. tank phenomonon is more of a perception problem (that would never happen in real life) than an actual gameplay issue... which classifies it as a change more appropriate for a mod than for a new patch from Firaxis.

[Zachriel]

A believer

Based on what has been posted on this thread, I have changed my tactics. From now on, I will use spearmen in the modern age to protect all my cities and my stacks of attack artillery. I can't wait till those enemy tanks try to take me on now!

Mu ha ha . . .

[Grrr]

Originally posted by Conqueror


I have tough time believing that, i cant remember ever losing tanks to spearmen, unless, ofcourse you use low health tanks to attack full health elite spearmen.

Lower your difficulty level if you cant handle losing units ?

And dont talk about "but it must be like in real life", would you seriously state that spearmen or other units survive for thousands of years in real life.

Conscript tanks, elite spearman, all on full health.

Sadly, unlike Apolyton, we can't go down to 'village idiot' level

Units are constantly replenished with new people, so yes, a spearman unit could survive thousands of years.

[notyoueither]

steele.

I have a seen a save of the dreaded phenomena, I think. Unfortunately I did not keep the save. Maybe Ethelred has it. I believe he may collect such oddities.

Of course, old saves would be useless, since the random seed of old saves is reset on load with 1.21

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Grrr


Conscript tanks

ROFLMAO. How did you pull that trick?

[Grrr]

I picked them up from the AI I think.

[star mouse]

If the spearman is fortified in a big city, it's going to get the fortify bonus, the big city bonus, and any terrain bonus. It could have a fairly decent chance of winning in that case.

You can tweak the hit points of the units, but here's another idea to combine with it. Increase the base hit points of all the experience levels. I use these:

Conscript 4
Regular 6
Veteran 9
Elite 12

These are double the original values, with +1 point to Veteran and +2 points to Elite. This leads to more combat "rounds", and swings the odds towards the more powerful unit and the units with more experience. Combine with age-related hit point bonuses and this could be interesting.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by notyoueither
steele.

I have a seen a save of the dreaded phenomena, I think. Unfortunately I did not keep the save. Maybe Ethelred has it. I believe he may collect such oddities.

Of course, old saves would be useless, since the random seed of old saves is reset on load with 1.21

I just try to help people with their problems. It is kind of fun to see what I can do with someone elses problem. After that I usually get rid of the saves.

I have never lost a tank to a speaman. I have been playing since the day after the game came out. However I am not that big on combat and have only a couple of games on larger than standard maps. I am sure it happens. The closest I came the speaman was a Hoplite in a metropolis. I came within one hit of losing my tank.

This a complaint in search of a real problem. Some people just can't handle losing a unit every two or three hundred attacks.

The random seed is only set on reload if you set up the game that way. Its in with the victory conditions. Default has the seed saved. I don't know what happens in pre 1.21f saves. I would guess it goes with the default.

[notyoueither]

Nope. Interestingly, 1.17 saves have the seed reset on reload.

[Evil_Eric_4]

Conscript 4
Regular 6
Veteran 9
Elite 12

I set mine at 3-5-6-8
Then I set Medieval units +1 HP
Industrial units +2--with Inf., tanks, marines, airborne at +3 HP early fighters and bombers +2 HP--Stealth bombers +3-- jet fighters +4 HP-- Helos + 2
Modern units +4 HP

I also gave all ships that use oil +4 HP

A veteran modern tank has 10 HP --elite 12 HP
A veteran ancient unit has 6 HP

These settings have 2 good effects.
1.I never lose a tank to an ancient or a BB to a wooden ship or IC
2.The AI understands the added worth and never (as far as I can see) builds inferior units when somethig better is available.(which cuts down even more the likelyhood of #1 happening)

In my current game at these settings I just got done conquering the Russians. In that campaign I sent waves of tanks(they didnt have any oil) against their cities.
EVERY city was defended by loads of Inf. and art. I never saw a single rifleman let alone anything less.
And of course they had lots of cossacks running around.
Anyway I lost only 1 tank in the whole operation.I had lots of retreats and tanks being beaten down to 1 HP though.
The 1 tank I lost was in attacking a city before I beat it down to size 6.

The war was very believable-with me bombarding the hell out of cities while moving inf. and tanks into position- then the tanks killing the defenders and moving on while the inf.occupied the town.

BTW-I have NEVER lost a spearman to a tank