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  • Re: Re: Spontaneous Revolt!?!

    Originally posted by Willem

    Although you're citizens appear to be happy, it's only because your Governor has been making more and more Entertainers. The War Weariness is still building up, and at a certain point, there's nothing you can do about it, short of making peace or having a revolt on your hands.

    It's a good idea to check up on your cities from time to time. to see how the Governors are doing. It's even possible that they may have created so many Entertainers that your people can starve. If you see that things are getting really bad, then raise your Luxury rates. That will buy you a little more time. Not a lot, but maybe enough to end the war.
    This may be true in some circumstances, but the mysteries surrounding the accumulation of war weariness and how a revolt is triggered have never been adequately explained. For example, in a game where I had similar circumstances (prolonged, defensive war while in a democracy), I was checking my citizens at the end of every turn, even though I largely had the governors managing moods. At the end of the turn before my surprise revolt, my total pop-head count was something like 68, 30, 10, 12 -- happy, content, unhappy, entertainers, repectively (this is from memory, but I think I still have the save game in any event). In another game, I didn't have governors managing moods, but was checking happiness levels every turn (due to the presence of a large number of nuclear plants in my core cities ). In a truly massive democracy (100+ cities IIRC), I had not one single city in disorder, needed very few entertainers to keep it this way, and suddenly went into revolt without warning.

    My hypothesis is that, even with adequate "happiness makers," at some point the level of war weariness reaches a tip-over point that will throw a civ into revolt, even if the typical signs of closing on that tip-over point (rampant unhappiness) don't manifest themselves. But it's only a hypothesis, and it is a very difficult game feature to test empirically.

    Catt

    Comment


    • Re: Re: Re: Spontaneous Revolt!?!

      Originally posted by Catt


      My hypothesis is that, even with adequate "happiness makers," at some point the level of war weariness reaches a tip-over point that will throw a civ into revolt, even if the typical signs of closing on that tip-over point (rampant unhappiness) don't manifest themselves. But it's only a hypothesis, and it is a very difficult game feature to test empirically.
      Well isn't that what I said? But it seems you can buy yourself some time if you manage things properly, though it's quite possible I'm wrong about that. I've never had it reach that point myself, I've always been able to sign a peace treaty before that. But judging from a number of posts I've read, there's a point of no return, and it's either make peace or have a revolt.

      Comment


      • Re: Re: Re: Re: Spontaneous Revolt!?!

        Originally posted by Willem


        Well isn't that what I said? But it seems you can buy yourself some time if you manage things properly, though it's quite possible I'm wrong about that. I've never had it reach that point myself, I've always been able to sign a peace treaty before that. But judging from a number of posts I've read, there's a point of no return, and it's either make peace or have a revolt.
        hi ,

        true , and you can stop it from coming that far , ....jsut sign a peace deal and start agin 2 turns later , ...or change government , or get more luxuries , ...

        have a nice day
        - RES NON VERBA - DE OPRESSO LIBER - VERITAS ET LIBERTAS - O TOLMON NIKA - SINE PARI - VIGLIA PRETIUM LIBERTAS - SI VIS PACEM , PARA BELLUM -
        - LEGIO PATRIA NOSTRA - one shot , one kill - freedom exists only in a book - everything you always wanted to know about special forces - everything you always wanted to know about Israel - what Dabur does in his free time , ... - in french - “Become an anti-Semitic teacher for 5 Euro only.”
        WHY DOES ISRAEL NEED A SECURITY FENCE --- join in an exceptional demo game > join here forum is now open ! - the new civ Conquest screenshots > go see them UPDATED 07.11.2003 ISRAEL > crisis or challenge ?

        Comment


        • Two military advisor bugs

          I have encountered two separate military advisor bugs today.

          Bug 1

          During the game, I pressed F3 to go to the Military Advisor screen, and the game crashed. Here's the info for the crash:

          CIVILIZATION3 caused an invalid page fault in
          module CIVILIZATION3.EXE at 017f:004fa0d1.
          Registers:
          EAX=0aff5c60 CS=017f EIP=004fa0d1 EFLGS=00010206
          EBX=00732194 SS=0187 ESP=00ace1ec EBP=00731f20
          ECX=00000313 DS=0187 ESI=0869b8dc FS=47df
          EDX=0869bf02 ES=0187 EDI=00000300 GS=0000
          Bytes at CS:EIP:
          f6 04 95 80 78 65 00 40 74 2d 39 85 74 36 00 00
          Stack dump:
          00617b38 00731f20 00000000 00000000 0056234e 00617b38 00000072 00000000 005d8be0 bfdf62ca 004f556e 00000002 00617b38 004557f4 00000000 005d8be0


          Then the game crashed again when I tried to load it up, it didn't even get to change the screen, then KERNEL32.DLL crashed as it tried to recover from the bug, my screen switched to 600 x 480 ... it got ugly, so I rebooted. I'm running Win98SE.

          Bug 2

          Here's a little bug with the military advisor that locks up the game. To lock up the game, do the following:[list=1][*]Save your game. (You won't be able to do so later.)[*]Fress F3 to go to the Military Advisor.[*]Switch to "Unit" view by clicking on the "Unit" button.[*]Right-click on any military unit so the menu appears.[*]Press F3.[*]Exit the Military Advisor screen.[/list=1]
          YOU ARE ON THE WAY TO DESTRUCTION
          YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE MAKE YOUR TIME

          At this point you may notice that the pop-up menu for the unit is still there. This menu is active; if you select "Activate Unit" it will activate. But you won't be able to move it, or do anything else. You will also hear the "MorphText.wav" sound at intervals. It seems as if pressing F3 has activated the Military Advisor again, and this one won't go away.
          None, Sedentary, Roving, Restless, Raging ... damn, is that all? Where's the "massive waves of barbarians that can wipe out your civilisation" setting?

          Comment


          • trading bug

            I built the Lighthouse Wonder, but it does not allow me to trade across the sea because I don't have a sea route. I have a sea route but the AI doesn't. (We both have harbors). Is it necessary when trading for both sides to have a sea route?

            Comment


            • Here's my $.02.
              I also have experienced sound corruption since installing 1.21.
              Additionally, when using the "J" command, occasionally the go-to circle and line disappear (all I have to do R-click and try again for it to be visible again).
              Also, Subs. Firaxis has obviously subjected my Submarines to the Philadelphia Experiment, as they will occasionally disappear completely for a turn or two at a time now. The can still be commanded regularly, and will reappear immediately if I move them.
              I have not changed anything on my system,i.e., Sound or Video Cards, and did not experience these glitches before Patch 1.21.
              Orbis Non Sufficat

              Comment


              • Re: Re: Re: Re: Spontaneous Revolt!?!

                Originally posted by Willem


                Well isn't that what I said? But it seems you can buy yourself some time if you manage things properly, though it's quite possible I'm wrong about that. I've never had it reach that point myself, I've always been able to sign a peace treaty before that. But judging from a number of posts I've read, there's a point of no return, and it's either make peace or have a revolt.
                I think we're largely in agreement, I just wasn't terribly articulate -- I was trying to emphasize that indicators of an impending revolt (governors making too many entertainers, and your suggestion that one needs to keep a close tab on what the governors are doing) are not always there. I have seen a revolt when my governors have made very few entertainers and when there is little other sign of unhappiness. I have also seen a revolt when no governors were active, and where I saw no signs of unhapppiness myself. It can be difficult (and frustarting for some) to "manage properly" without input that something is going wrong, or without knowing, again because of no inputs, when the time to make peace or suffer revolt arrives.

                I don't think this is a "bug," so much as it is an "issue" that could use a little sunshine from the programming team at Firaxis.

                Comment


                • One thing I've noticed about 1.21f is that the AI civs don't tend to stay in Democracy so much, which is good.

                  Now if there was just a Fascism... are there gonna be any new govs in PtW?


                  See? Communisms! And a Monarchy!
                  Attached Files
                  'Say, what are those Russians with the funny hats doing?'

                  Comment


                  • Re: Two military advisor bugs

                    Originally posted by star mouse
                    I have encountered two separate military advisor bugs today.

                    Bug 1

                    During the game, I pressed F3 to go to the Military Advisor screen, and the game crashed. Here's the info for the crash:

                    CIVILIZATION3 caused an invalid page fault in
                    module CIVILIZATION3.EXE at 017f:004fa0d1.
                    Registers:
                    EAX=0aff5c60 CS=017f EIP=004fa0d1 EFLGS=00010206
                    EBX=00732194 SS=0187 ESP=00ace1ec EBP=00731f20
                    ECX=00000313 DS=0187 ESI=0869b8dc FS=47df
                    EDX=0869bf02 ES=0187 EDI=00000300 GS=0000
                    Bytes at CS:EIP:
                    f6 04 95 80 78 65 00 40 74 2d 39 85 74 36 00 00
                    Stack dump:
                    00617b38 00731f20 00000000 00000000 0056234e 00617b38 00000072 00000000 005d8be0 bfdf62ca 004f556e 00000002 00617b38 004557f4 00000000 005d8be0


                    Then the game crashed again when I tried to load it up, it didn't even get to change the screen, then KERNEL32.DLL crashed as it tried to recover from the bug, my screen switched to 600 x 480 ... it got ugly, so I rebooted. I'm running Win98SE.

                    Bug 2

                    Here's a little bug with the military advisor that locks up the game. To lock up the game, do the following:[list=1][*]Save your game. (You won't be able to do so later.)[*]Fress F3 to go to the Military Advisor.[*]Switch to "Unit" view by clicking on the "Unit" button.[*]Right-click on any military unit so the menu appears.[*]Press F3.[*]Exit the Military Advisor screen.[/list=1]
                    YOU ARE ON THE WAY TO DESTRUCTION
                    YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE MAKE YOUR TIME

                    At this point you may notice that the pop-up menu for the unit is still there. This menu is active; if you select "Activate Unit" it will activate. But you won't be able to move it, or do anything else. You will also hear the "MorphText.wav" sound at intervals. It seems as if pressing F3 has activated the Military Advisor again, and this one won't go away.
                    hi

                    patch , ......what version , ...

                    have a nice day
                    - RES NON VERBA - DE OPRESSO LIBER - VERITAS ET LIBERTAS - O TOLMON NIKA - SINE PARI - VIGLIA PRETIUM LIBERTAS - SI VIS PACEM , PARA BELLUM -
                    - LEGIO PATRIA NOSTRA - one shot , one kill - freedom exists only in a book - everything you always wanted to know about special forces - everything you always wanted to know about Israel - what Dabur does in his free time , ... - in french - “Become an anti-Semitic teacher for 5 Euro only.”
                    WHY DOES ISRAEL NEED A SECURITY FENCE --- join in an exceptional demo game > join here forum is now open ! - the new civ Conquest screenshots > go see them UPDATED 07.11.2003 ISRAEL > crisis or challenge ?

                    Comment


                    • Willem & Panang:

                      An update on expansionist results for non expansionist civs: Would agree on the scout unit itself, but posting above, I'd been getting these results giving the warrior the "all terrain as roads" flag and am now prepared to believe this does the same thing. (Big world exploration help the reason for doing it).

                      started playing with warrior changed to 2 MP and no flag and got almost nothing but barbarians landing on huts with a about a 230x210 world and 200 tech rate, restless barbs.

                      started another with flag back on and 1 MP warriors got nothing but workers, tech, and money - no bad results. Had tech rate turned up to 650 I think on a 240x200 world, restless barbs. (A rate proportionate to huge 160x160 and 400 would be 750, so my rates a little faster).

                      Sidebar: probably common knowledge, but low tech rate number for big worlds means faster tech, this can be dramatic. This is sure poorly explained on the editor help - a lot of which in general doesn't say a damn thing worthwhile.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by candidgamera
                        Willem & Panang:

                        An update on expansionist results for non expansionist civs: Would agree on the scout unit itself, but posting above, I'd been getting these results giving the warrior the "all terrain as roads" flag and am now prepared to believe this does the same thing. (Big world exploration help the reason for doing it).

                        started playing with warrior changed to 2 MP and no flag and got almost nothing but barbarians landing on huts with a about a 230x210 world and 200 tech rate, restless barbs.

                        started another with flag back on and 1 MP warriors got nothing but workers, tech, and money - no bad results. Had tech rate turned up to 650 I think on a 240x200 world, restless barbs. (A rate proportionate to huge 160x160 and 400 would be 750, so my rates a little faster).

                        Sidebar: probably common knowledge, but low tech rate number for big worlds means faster tech, this can be dramatic. This is sure poorly explained on the editor help - a lot of which in general doesn't say a damn thing worthwhile.
                        hi ,

                        you can always start with a couple explorer's , ....
                        have you tried to start in a different era , ....

                        have a nice day
                        - RES NON VERBA - DE OPRESSO LIBER - VERITAS ET LIBERTAS - O TOLMON NIKA - SINE PARI - VIGLIA PRETIUM LIBERTAS - SI VIS PACEM , PARA BELLUM -
                        - LEGIO PATRIA NOSTRA - one shot , one kill - freedom exists only in a book - everything you always wanted to know about special forces - everything you always wanted to know about Israel - what Dabur does in his free time , ... - in french - “Become an anti-Semitic teacher for 5 Euro only.”
                        WHY DOES ISRAEL NEED A SECURITY FENCE --- join in an exceptional demo game > join here forum is now open ! - the new civ Conquest screenshots > go see them UPDATED 07.11.2003 ISRAEL > crisis or challenge ?

                        Comment


                        • A few things I've been noticing (sorry if this has been refered to previously). Anyone experienced this?

                          A) The limit for 1 airlift per city each turn has been removed.

                          B) Ex.: in diplomacy, the AI does not accept to be paid +2 per turn when your cash balance is -5 per turn. So you have to open the domestic advisor screen, drop your science rate from 50% to 40% so your balance goes up to +4, and then offer the exact same deal, which the AI will now promptly accept. Great. Now you have to open the domestic advisor screen again, and return the science rate back to 50%, thus getting a -7 balance per turn, which was exactly what you wanted to do from the start...

                          C) I've been abandoning cities that I've acquired culturally, but the previous owner no longer gets mad at me.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by panag


                            hi ,

                            you can always start with a couple explorer's , ....
                            have you tried to start in a different era , ....

                            have a nice day
                            panang:
                            was actually trying to slow the expansionist early get all the tech too quick. Am probably willing to live with an "imperfect porridge" at this point. Went to middle option on continents - helps to balance out - you have to build ships to get places.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by candidgamera


                              panang:
                              was actually trying to slow the expansionist early get all the tech too quick. Am probably willing to live with an "imperfect porridge" at this point. Went to middle option on continents - helps to balance out - you have to build ships to get places.
                              hi ,

                              , what do you mean , the explores should move around .
                              so , who is having the tech('s) to fast , ....
                              what you want to do exactly , ....

                              have a nice day
                              - RES NON VERBA - DE OPRESSO LIBER - VERITAS ET LIBERTAS - O TOLMON NIKA - SINE PARI - VIGLIA PRETIUM LIBERTAS - SI VIS PACEM , PARA BELLUM -
                              - LEGIO PATRIA NOSTRA - one shot , one kill - freedom exists only in a book - everything you always wanted to know about special forces - everything you always wanted to know about Israel - what Dabur does in his free time , ... - in french - “Become an anti-Semitic teacher for 5 Euro only.”
                              WHY DOES ISRAEL NEED A SECURITY FENCE --- join in an exceptional demo game > join here forum is now open ! - the new civ Conquest screenshots > go see them UPDATED 07.11.2003 ISRAEL > crisis or challenge ?

                              Comment


                              • panang:

                                like to play on big worlds, but don't want to overpower the warrior too much in making him move faster to make exploration go a little faster. The "all terrain as roads" flag appears to be just like a scout unit in getting expansionist type, all positive results, landing on goodie huts. Would assume if I let explorers in at start, (moved them to astronomy, from navigation anyway), with 2 mp, all terrain as roads, this would only get worse. Have played several games where having this "expansionist" unit caused behavior is almost better than having "scientific" trait - the tech just comes so fast for free, especially with maxed-out sized continents. My current "balance" solution is to play with the middle option on continents - this means more islands, and keep warriors at 1MP, all terrain as roads. Its still all positive results so far, but better than all negative as before with just giving the warrior 2 mp, no all terrain as roads, and the islands act as firebreaks to getting tech too fast - and the worlds seem more interesting too.

                                Comment

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