PATCH v1.21f bugs and issues.

[lorddread]

The AI Cheats

I "administratively" removed Egypt from the game using Civ Save Game Editor.

I was in the industiral age and I had my gold balanced out to where all I had coming in from taxes matched what I had going out. I "admined" out the Egyptians who were my neighbors and made them mine by changing the cities to American owned.

When I restarted the game, I was loosing 984 each turn. I had to drop all money going into techs and being paid for entertainers in order to make up for the shortfall. Not only that but all their cities over size 8 had all their workers angry with no penalties (no smoke rising up, no rioting, nothing)

From this I have learned the following: The AI is allowed deficit spending. The question I have to ask is this fair? If we have a budget we must stay within why doesn't the AI?

Please try this out on large nations. Let me know if you find the same thing.

[philosophile]

administratively" removed Egypt from the game using Civ Save Game Editor.

I was in the industiral age and I had my gold balanced out to where all I had coming in from taxes matched what I had going out. I "admined" out the Egyptians who were my neighbors and made them mine by changing the cities to American owned.

When I restarted the game, I was loosing 984 each turn. I had to drop all money going into techs and being paid for entertainers in order to make up for the shortfall. Not only that but all their cities over size 8 had all their workers angry with no penalties (no smoke rising up, no rioting, nothing)

From this I have learned the following: The AI is allowed deficit spending. The question I have to ask is this fair? If we have a budget we must stay within why doesn't the AI?
_________

This doesn't prove anything except that the game goes wacko when you edit it. All sorts of changes are LOST when you edited the game, like Egypt's trades.... They could have had income from trading tech. The people were probably rioting because they were no longer under the governor's manage mood setting too.

[civman2000]

deficit spending? You mean paying more for something than you have in negotiations?

[bigvic]

Originally posted by star mouse


For me, it is happening every time I bombard. I wasn't even bombarding cities.

My targets were often strategic resources on coastal tiles, but the pause would happen even if I was bombarding something else and even when the bombard failed.

Yeah, I get strange results here. In the game I have now, my bombardment of Karachi results in the folowing message, "The of Karachi has been destroyed."

[lorddread]

deficit spending

Originally posted by civman2000
deficit spending? You mean paying more for something than you have in negotiations?

No, the Egyptians were spending more money on upkeep per turn than they had. Even if they had money coming in from tech, It still couldn't be anywhere near 984 gold per turn. No body in the game had that kind of money

[dawidge]

Re: deficit spending

Originally posted by lorddread

No, the Egyptians were spending more money on upkeep per turn than they had. Even if they had money coming in from tech, It still couldn't be anywhere near 984 gold per turn. No body in the game had that kind of money

Perhaps nobody had that kind of money because they were all giving it to Egypt. At the lower difficulty levels, I tend to lead the world in tech production. To keep the AI down, I will sell them tech for as much as the market will bear and crank my tech production to 100% I can easily sell some of the more advanced techs for more than 100gold/turn to each of the AIs (the price drops the more you sell it, so you need to balance it a bit and sell to the richest civs first). I get a tech every four turns, I sell a tech every 8 turns. between that and selling luxuries, the AI gets completely hamstrung and cannot develop *any* tech on their own. I've had an overall income/turn in excess of 4000/turn, but only netted 100 or so after expenses.

However, chances are that you got bit by a sudden increase in corruption. I'm just plucking numbers out of the air, but Egypt could easily have maintained 24 cities on their own without incurring massive corruption, and you could have maintained 24 cities without incurring massive corruption, but once you merged them to have 48 cities of your own, the outlying cities aren't making 1/10th the money they used to.

or, as someone pointed out, editing the save made it unstable, but my money is on corruption.

[problem_child]

Has anybody else noticed the bug where Workers dont change with the industrial age and still run around wearing those toga things? its annoying, I find it hard to take myself seriously as a vibrant- modern state with these backward Workers.

[exeter0]

Originally posted by problem_child
Has anybody else noticed the bug where Workers dont change with the industrial age and still run around wearing those toga things? its annoying, I find it hard to take myself seriously as a vibrant- modern state with these backward Workers.

No, Never!

[exeter0]

I have noticed that AI workers do not often build mines... They also seem to irrigate far too much... where they settle on a wide expanse with no hills or mountains... they just irigate the whole lot. This means that they have numerous excess food but very poor production.

Has anyone else noticed this?

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by exeter0
I have noticed that AI workers do not often build mines... They also seem to irrigate far too much... where they settle on a wide expanse with no hills or mountains... they just irigate the whole lot. This means that they have numerous excess food but very poor production.

Has anyone else noticed this?

I've noticed that auto-workers mine grassland and irrigate plains but I would say they over-mine rather than over-irrigate.

[Lucilla]

Originally posted by SpencerH


I've noticed that auto-workers mine grassland and irrigate plains but I would say they over-mine rather than over-irrigate.

If I use "A" to automate workers, they seem to irrigate more than mine, which is annoying if you have an overproduction of food and they still keep on irrigating.

When I use "shift-A", they usually start with mining (because there's no river close by) and don't replace the mines afterwards by irrigation (which they would do when using just "A").

This way I get usually appropriate shield production and if I notice that cities don't grow, I can irrigate manually.

[bigvic]

Originally posted by problem_child
Has anybody else noticed the bug where Workers dont change with the industrial age and still run around wearing those toga things? its annoying, I find it hard to take myself seriously as a vibrant- modern state with these backward Workers.

Yes, I just noticed that. They don't change until moder. Minor prob, really.

To resurrect a dead horse, my roommate was playing the other night when a twist of the late game worker/berserker "bug" hit. He was the Germans and had already won a cultural (!) victory. Was playing for sheer wicked enjoyment, lobbing nukes, being a total a$$hole to the poor AI. Suddenly 40+ of his own workers went berserk, attacking cities (and taking down mech infantry). He had to send several modern armies to restore order, got many killed. No way its a bug, but did anyone hear of this twist to an old "bug" before 1.21?

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Lucilla

If I use "A" to automate workers, they seem to irrigate more than mine, which is annoying if you have an overproduction of food and they still keep on irrigating.

When I use "shift-A", they usually start with mining (because there's no river close by) and don't replace the mines afterwards by irrigation (which they would do when using just "A").

This way I get usually appropriate shield production and if I notice that cities don't grow, I can irrigate manually.

That seems to make sense, I use shift-A to automate (but I dont do so until my civ is well under way).

[Lucilla]

Originally posted by bigvic


Suddenly 40+ of his own workers went berserk, attacking cities (and taking down mech infantry). He had to send several modern armies to restore order, got many killed. No way its a bug, but did anyone hear of this twist to an old "bug" before 1.21?

Never experienced this! How can a worker attack, if he doesn't have attack value? Does he just destroy improvements or can he actually kill units???

And why would he do that?

[bigvic]

Originally posted by Lucilla


Never experienced this! How can a worker attack, if he doesn't have attack value? Does he just destroy improvements or can he actually kill units???

And why would he do that?

I'll have to ask him about the exact graphics, though it really doesn't matter. You can mod a scout to have offensive strength and when he attacks, nothing happens, he just stands there, though he does attack. I believe he said they actually attacked cities, and he had a rough time taking the berserk workers down. I'm sure its no bug, too intricate. Probably an after-the-game-is-over-don't-you-have-a-life kind of joke from Firaxis programmers. Which is cool. Makes me want to play around with the concept to see what else they got. My roommate likes to push the program to see if it breaks by doing this sort of thing, but berserk workers just can't be a bug.