v1.17f Reaadme

[pauli]

[Increased max for civ spacing] would take, literally, 2 seconds to change.
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Have the max civ spacing dependent on the map size and maximum number of civilisations. There will be obvious problems when the minimum civ spacing is greater than the size of the map. There are also less obvious problems when the possible number of positions available on the map as determined by the setting for minimum spacing is less than the maximum number of civs.

A maximum value equal to

SQRT ( (MAP X * MAP Y) / NUMBER_OF_CIVS )

could work, but testing will be needed to check this.

just for clarity... the max civ spacing in question is just the maximum value you can assign in the editor per map size. ie, it's 32 now, so no map size can have the civ spacing be above 32. the *max* doesn't need to change per map size - it just needs to change overall. the actual per size setting is what your idea would presumably apply to.

[Libertarian]

Originally posted by TechWins
Lib, could you just give it a break for once? Your constant stating of your position on Civ3 is starting to get quite repetitive. Every thread you take part in doesn't have to turn into a discussion about your feelings does it? Now I'm not suggesting that you can't post your feelings, in all honesty I could careless, however, I think there is a more fitting place to do that in - OT.

Then why didn't you post yours there? Everybody here, including you, is posting his feelings. I suggest you discipline your own eyeballs if you have a problem with my posts.

[Brundlefly]

Firaxis, we all appreciate the work you've done on the new patch.

I personally have no interest in scenario building, multiplayer, or editor functions. I just want to play a balanced game. Along those lines, I was disappointed that AI tech trading during the player turn was not addressed in this patch.

Would you comment on the AI tech-trading during the player turn that appeared after the 1.16f patch? Is this a bug or not? Since this was not documented in the release notes of that patch, many people assume it is a bug.

Some people thought AI tech trading out-of-turn might have been added to counter the so-called "exploit" that allowed a player to sell the same tech to every civilization on his turn. Many people, however, did not feel that being able to do this was an exploit since the AI can do the same thing on it's turn. At the very least, if you leave it this way allow the player to initiate diplomacy during the AI's turn to balance things out.

Thanks again for the patch!

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Grumbold
I can issue 'y' with one hand while the other stays on the mouse but shift-y is a 2 hand effort.

Get bigger hands?

Ummm, sorry. That's almost rude. No, that is rude, but I'll leave it.

I don't have a problem shift+ any letter on the key board. Takes some extra effort, yes. But I can do it. Use pinky and index, or thumb and pinky, depending on the key combo. Shift+y? It isn't even a stretch.

Unfortunately, some of you may lack an upgradable version of the human hand. Sorry.

Salve

[notyoueither]

Stack movement! OhBoy, OhBoy, OhBoy, OhBoy, OhBoy!

If any of you think this won't help, have you ever moved 12 or 16 or 24 workers around to clean pollution? Heh.

Or clicked and clicked and clicked as you moved stacks to their campaign start positions?

Or wanted to rebase one of your major air forces to the other side of the world?

Or moved a major fleet around?

For my style of play, with this game, their implementation is great! I wouldn't have thought of it, but I'm happy they did.

Pick a unit, hit j, click goal. Gone! Wonderful. I don't have to assign units to groups, that can be tedious if I remember CTP2 correctly. Now, CTP2 armies in combat, that's another story (great) but alas, we're not going to get that in a patch, if ever with Civ3.

Having to pick the Infantry, move them, and then the Tanks? I feel very burdened by this. Somewhat less burdened than when I had to move all 4 Inf and 8 Tanks 1 by 1.

Salve

[Libertarian]

Firaxis implemented group movement the right way. In fact, what other way would be deterministic?

[Chronus]

This patch sounds really good. I'll remain a little cautious until I try it but I am looking forward to it.

but shift-y is a 2 hand effort

It is? You must have very tiny hands.

Property ownership is the only ethical means for establishing rights.

Now there's a scary thought. So a homeless person has no rights? This isn't what you really meant, is it?

Sorry . . . off topic.

[Libertarian]

Do you think real-estate is the only sort of property there is? Does he not own his own life? His own mind? His own body? In fact, these were his original property which he could have used peacefully and honestly to acquire more. If a man is free from the coercion and fraud of others, then his property (and rights) status is a direct effect of his own volition.

[star mouse]

Originally posted by pauli
just for clarity... the max civ spacing in question is just the maximum value you can assign in the editor per map size. ie, it's 32 now, so no map size can have the civ spacing be above 32. the *max* doesn't need to change per map size - it just needs to change overall. the actual per size setting is what your idea would presumably apply to.

not quite ... my formula provides a reasonable shot at a maximum value for the minimum distance between civs that always ensures the users set sane combinations, and is flexible enough to allow rather large distances on large maps. It is a reasonably accurate formula that gives the maximum possible minimum distance between any two civs on a map, given the map dimensions and number of civs. It is intended to replace the hardcoded maximum of 32, not the individual values (which are usually less).

Suppose we were creating an "itty bitty" map size, 40 x 40, 4 civs. A limit with the constant value of 32 is too large here, and is likely to cause problems if CIV3 doesn't perform good sanity tests. My formula would enforce a maximum distance of 20 in the editor, but the mod maker would probably choose a closer distance.

Or suppose we're creating a "gigantic" map size, 256 x 256, 16 civs. My formula would impose a maximum distance of 64 here, but again, the mod maker will probably choose a lesser value.

[Chronus]

Lib - Okay, I gotcha now. Thanks for the clarification . . . I did view the word "property" as strictly in terms of real estate which is why I was startled by your statement.

[Deathwalker]

How come there's no mention of the ability to sink ships? with bombard or planes?
But apart from that it does look great, it will be nice to try

[Fidel]

Originally posted by Deathwalker
How come there's no mention of the ability to sink ships? with bombard or planes?
But apart from that it does look great, it will be nice to try

With all due respect, quite a few people actually LIKE the fact that air units cannot sink ships.

[Kassiopeia]

The list of improvements looks very intriguing. Most download...

Thank you Firaxians for your work!

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Thrawn05
The reason for this is because a month ago I installed a 2nd HD for my computer, and I had to ******g reinstall EVERYTHING (for those who are not familiar with how the computer works, if you install a 2nd HD, its automaticly gets the drive letter after the 1st HD, so my D:\ CD drive turned to E:\

Question: Why dont you just set the drive to use a different letter??

[moomin]

Let me just say, as one of those who has expressed my dismay with the lack of Firaxian response to the questions about the game, that I'm happy to see most of the burning problems addressed with this patch. Well done.

I'm even happier to see that so many people from Firaxis have been active with answers and comments in this thread. It boosts my confidence in the belief that Firaxis will eventually patch the game to become the classic it deserves to be.

While I, personally, won't reinstall Civ3 for this - I'll wait for the next patch, I think, since I'm mostly interested in scenario editing at this point, and there seems to be a few issues left to address - I can only register happiness that we begin to see the game that I'm sure Firaxis intended to deliver from scratch.

Well done, gentlemen!