two months have passed, and we have no idea when next patch will be released

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Jeez, Regis.. I just don't know which one to pick! Can I phone a friend?


Dan

[MarkG]

Charles, you are falling into the "libertarian trap"
just because Dan choose to not reply to your little rant (with arguments that have been posted lots of times in the past and have been answered) doesnt mean anything. look a bit over your own self and maybe you'll see some other things beyong dan not replying to you. maybe you'll see some stuff that Dan has posted somewhere else and hasnt posted here until know(now, that's not a hint for you Dan )...


now, in your post, beyond "accusing" Dan that all they care is money and that they have lost their "passion" and love for the game, you're saying two things:
- firaxis hasnt done anything to address complaints: wrong , they released a patch and are working on a second
- more information must be given: this has already been answered in the past lots of times. just refer to older posts by both Jeff and Dan.


now, if i was dan, i couldnt find a single reason to answer to an attack with either totally false statements or repetitions of answered questions...

[nato]

I would just like to say that I'd rather have the occassional snippets of info from Dan and others, instead of the aptly named "libertarian trap".

The info is obviously nowhere near as forthcoming as we would like ... but I would still rather have that than this strange stalking thing he and others developed ...

Which contributes more to the forum?

(btw, I'm in the not-super-happy with Civ3 camp, so this is not a "fanboy" statement)

[Venge]

I think it is quite good of them (representatives of Civ3) to stop by. I think we all need to respect their positions and if they have info that they are not supposed to let out just yet.
No amount of complaints will make them.
Besides, maybe he just wanted to stop by and drop us a line, and not defend himself and the company he works for.

[notyoueither]

Ever been stuck on the horns of a dilemma? Which do I choose? Hmmm.

Option 1. Charles is right, Firaxis has PR that makes Goebbels look like a genius. Lib and Yin and many others have been p*ssed off royally due to a lack of responsiveness from the developers of Civ3. Yeah, sure, they drop by once in a while to answer some question or other, but the majority of people are in the dark as to their intentions with the most important TBS title in years. Yech! Most important? You bettcha! How many who have devoted hours to this forum dispute this?

2. Charles and Lib and Yin are full of sh*t for expecting responses to them personnally. How the h*ll can an ego get that big? How do you expect any company to respond individually and at length to each and every fan all, or even some, of the time.

Unfortunately, Regis, the answer is both. Let's see, yup still says last updated Dec 28, 2001.

I'm still in the dark as to what the h*ll is going on with this game.

I have heard nothing about the short-comings and what may be done to address them.

Now, I would be counted a fan by many of the people on this forum, but even I can see how the lack of a single Firaxian being tasked with addressing the Yins and Libs and NYEs has done the company, and perhaps the game, some damage. Are all of the knives that are out going to be buried the minute a less than perfect patch or XP is released? I doubt it. The truth is that the game has lost the good-will of some very dedicated people. Some of them will never come back. Was this necessry? No.

The fact is that a spokesman of any talent at all would have easily kept the good-will of Yin and Lib. Then god help the people who spoke against the game with those two going at them.

Are we owed a response by Firaxis? Don't be an *ss. I buy a product, I don't like it. I don't buy another product made by that company. The last thing I ever expect is a letter of apology from the razor-blade makers at Gillette. *Oh sorry NYE, we regret that you knicked yourself, we shall endeavour to do better.* Get serious!

But on the other hand, maybe many people get knicked by Gillette blades. The people who run Gillette might find it in their wisdom to acknowledge a problem with a batch of blades and inform consumers what is being done about it. Unless of course they are Firestone.

Where the h*ll am I going with this? Oh yeah.

The truth is on both sides and neither. The critics have valid points. The company has a position to maintain.

I find it sad that the two cannot find a middle ground, and that Firaxis cannot hire a half-competent spokesman. I'd suggest ****gy, but he is rapidly disappearing, soon to be known as SaRA.

Salve

[Master2000]

It's nice to see some Firaxis post again.

Dan, have you been reading here alot?

[MarkG]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I have heard nothing about the short-comings and what may be done to address them.

hint for you too: see a certain thread in the strategy forum...

[Kiltdown]

How many responses are enough?

I'm curious. Clearly people have different levels of expectation. Some seem to think every question by every poster needs to be answered by Firaxis. Others are pleased with any post at all.

Maybe this is a good question for a poll:

How many posts should we receive from Firaxis?
1) Reply to every posted question, especially if it's
2) Post every day on every outstanding question/concern
3) Post every few days on every outstanding question/concern
4) Post when something has changed or there's more information
5) Don't post so much - keep working on the product
6) Post? Post? Don't they make cereal or something?


I think the problem is that most people realistically want 4) but believe that should be pretty much the same as 2). This would be the workplace equivalent of a development manager who asked for a written status report every day. In my experience, those managers are shot by their own troops. "We're sorry sir, but all our weapons accidentally discharged simultaneously."

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
Jeez, Regis.. I just don't know which one to pick! Can I phone a friend?


Dan

Now thats the Dan I know! And as always greatly representing the company as it is well known - a joke.

A simple mature answer would have sufficed Dan - but you would rather dance. It's as Lib and Yin have been saying, the lower my expectations the better.

Charles.

[soxs]

Words of a Patch

I had a problem with the game I was playing and I told Firaxis about it. They asked for my save game and verified it my problem was a bug and this is the reply I got from them on the status (this email was received on Jan 10):

The bug was already fixed internally. We're working on a patch right now that will correct the problem, but when it'll be released is anyone's guess. Regrettably, there isn't a way for the problem not to occur with the current version. Hopefully v1.17f or whatever version we finally sign off will be available before the end of the month.

Jeff

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by MarkG
Charles, you are falling into the "libertarian trap"
just because Dan choose to not reply to your little rant (with arguments that have been posted lots of times in the past and have been answered) doesnt mean anything. look a bit over your own self and maybe you'll see some other things beyong dan not replying to you. maybe you'll see some stuff that Dan has posted somewhere else and hasnt posted here until know(now, that's not a hint for you Dan )...

Mark - you're falling into that sucky fan boy trap. First off, it wasn't a rant it was a mature and reasonable statement with a very elementary question that he could have easily answered. I've been everywhere and I haven't seen hide nor hair of any responses that bare any weight or helpfull information. I see a crap load of vague responses and smart ass remarks though.

now, in your post, beyond "accusing" Dan that all they care is money and that they have lost their "passion" and love for the game, you're saying two things:
- firaxis hasnt done anything to address complaints: wrong , they released a patch and are working on a second
- more information must be given: this has already been answered in the past lots of times. just refer to older posts by both Jeff and Dan.

Damb rights I'm saying that. I didn't want to believe Lib and Yin in the beginning and I often thought that they were being a little too hard on Firaxis and it's employees, but now I see the truth. The patch in which your referring to is MANDITORY considering the game had all those bugs and flaws that needed to be worked out, it's not a "give point" for them. As far as I'm concerned asside from the patches, I've heard nothing about future improvements or what they're working on right now. All we know for certain is that they're planning to release another patch and possibly an expansion pack. Big deal! WHAT ARE THEY WORKING ON????? Thats what we want to know. But the one thing that picks my butt about you Mark is that you defend them everytime, and you always say the same thing over and over - "Firaxis has responded and they have answered our questions" I don't think so my friend, if they answered our questions then why are we still asking them? And if you claim that other threads bare information or answers to our questions tell me where they are and I'll go check it out - until then I haven't seen anything, and my 100 or so emails to "askthecivteam@firaxis.com" have not been answered!

now, if i was dan, i couldnt find a single reason to answer to an attack with either totally false statements or repetitions of answered questions...

I'll tell you something, if I was representing a business and was being attacked I would attack back armed with information to shut the fans up! In this case they hide, run and dodge everything with little or no response - because they always have you guys to cover for them!
Charles.

[CharlesUFarley]

Re: Words of a Patch

Originally posted by soxs
I had a problem with the game I was playing and I told Firaxis about it. They asked for my save game and verified it my problem was a bug and this is the reply I got from them on the status (this email was received on Jan 10):

The bug was already fixed internally. We're working on a patch right now that will correct the problem, but when it'll be released is anyone's guess. Regrettably, there isn't a way for the problem not to occur with the current version. Hopefully v1.17f or whatever version we finally sign off will be available before the end of the month.

Jeff

So your the one!

Charles.

[bahoo]

Originally posted by MarkG

- firaxis hasnt done anything to address complaints: wrong , they released a patch and are working on a second

Are you so sure? That's what the original poster asked, only to be followed by a bunch of snide remarks (and poor attempts at humor) by Firaxis. I don't see anything from Firaxis that would make me believe a patch is in the works.

- more information must be given: this has already been answered in the past lots of times. just refer to older posts by both Jeff and Dan.

Could you please point me to the thread with all the answers?

now, if i was dan, i couldnt find a single reason to answer to an attack with either totally false statements or repetitions of answered questions...

I don't know if I'd qualify "Is there going to be a second patch?" as an attack.

[jackshot]

Originally posted by CharlesUFarley
Damb rights I'm saying that. I didn't want to believe Lib and Yin in the beginning and I often thought that they were being a little too hard on Firaxis and it's employees, but now I see the truth. The patch in which your referring to is MANDITORY considering the game had all those bugs and flaws that needed to be worked out, it's not a "give point" for them. As far as I'm concerned asside from the patches, I've heard nothing about future improvements or what they're working on right now. All we know for certain is that they're planning to release another patch and possibly an expansion pack. Big deal! WHAT ARE THEY WORKING ON?????...
I'll tell you something, if I was representing a business and was being attacked I would attack back armed with information to shut the fans up! In this case they hide, run and dodge everything with little or no response - because they always have you guys to cover for them!
Charles.

Whoa, way of bounds Charles.

I understand where you are coming from, as I've said before Firaxis seems intent on maintaining options that have no benefit whatsoever to the consumer. This is bad, but on a scale much less than fraud or avarice.

At some point you have to respect their decisions on how they want to conduct themselves. Chopping their heads off every time they show up isn't conducive to anything, and criticising people for what they don't say is a bad feedback loop.

I've always had the philosophy that if it ain't on my hd or available to be on my hd, it doesn't exist. Get past the hype and expectations, you can only judge what is in front of you. Like an imperfect novel, it is what the author says it is until it says something else.

To their credit, they are here They are trying to support the game as best they can given their parameters. This is good, it is an above and beyond. You take the bad with the good. In reading the tea leaves on this business, I'm not so sure much of the forum criticism wouldn't be better spent elsewhere, but that's another topic. For now, we want them and they want us.

You want Firaxis to be candid, you also have to make a climate they can be candid in. Of course, OTOH giving up all your complaints is not a climate for candidness either - on that subject, I have to admit I just don't get the fanboys at all. Refering here to Kiltdown's rather meanspirited post:

1 - if complaints are heard, the game can get better. Admittedly the odds are small.

2 - if not, the game stays the way it is. Thought you liked it.

True markets require both sides of the transaction to be selfish. A consumer in a market situation is clearly in a position of demand or not get. So I don't get the downside, why piss on complaints?

It is called demand, isn't it?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by MarkG
hint for you too: see a certain thread in the strategy forum...

OK, I'll bite. Which one?

I've seen many posts by Firaxians, but I am missing the connection.

Salve