Why do you spit in our faces, Firaxis?

[Hoek]

Firaxis, why is it that you make various vague promises of improved scenario-making capabilities (or rather, ANY scenario-making capabilities) but then give us no idea of when or whether we should in fact expect you to fix this. You just released a patch today that addresses some quite minor problems in the face of key missing elements. You only frustrate customers and loyal fans (anyone who spents hours making scenarios is clearly a dedicated and loyal fan) who have sustained the popularity of Civ 2 over the past 5 years. By continuously ignoring questions about when we will be able to make scenarios, you really make guys like me bitter. It is very insulting to see you answer questions about coastal fortresses from newbies but ignore people who have been integral parts of the civ community for many years asking when you will let us make scenarios for your game. Please don't make me bitter towards your company, because I have long enjoyed your work. But your failure to address the valid concerns of the scenario-making community is extremely frustrating. Throw us a bone, here.

[H Tower]

because the can.

because they want to make more money off you when they finally release a scenario disk

because they want to make money off you when they release multiplayer

because they want to milk even more money off you when they release even more scenario features

pick which one you like the most

[Hoek]

My point is that this negligent behavior is uncharacteristic of the boys at Firaxis. They generally have produced good products (ones they were willing to see suceed rather than ones that would make them a few quick bucks) and have invested the time and resources to curry the favor of a large cadre of long-term fans like myself. So far, they and Infogrames have come off as greedy and unconcerned with the concerns of fans. Perhaps they do want to see their long-term fans replaced by a bunch of newcomers who will just jump to the next flashy game that comes out instead of sticking with this one, but it doesn't seem characteristic. I hope they prove me wrong.

[ravagon]

I have a feeling that there may be legal implications involved if they were to respond in the affirmative and were then unable to act accordingly (and the converse applies too).
I share your frustration however. Scenarios of pretty much any kind are impossible at the present and we have had little indication of this situation changing for the better at any time in the near future.
A bitter blow for a game that promised so much ...

[Hoek]

Legal Implications? How about Infogrames promising a "designer's notes" in the Limited Edition but not providing it?

Any legal reason for not doing it is brand new because Firaxis (and Sid Meier before Firaxis) has long been responsive to fan concerns. Now they are really pussyfooting around giving fans any idea of what to expect.

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

How about the truth... that we don't want to fuel already incredibly high expectations by talking about potential future features until we know for sure?

If we were really interested in "spitting in your face", why would I even bother to respond to this thread, especially at 3 AM? Why would we continue to improve the editor in the 1st patch?

Why? Because we really *are* concerned with modding and scenario editing, but we're just not able to tell you what our future plans are yet.

Hey, I know it's hip to be a cynic and bag on the "evil, faceless game company", but come on... we are committed to this game and (believe it or not) to the mod and scenario community.


Dan

[MarkG]

GO DAN, GO!
(both hands and feet)

[serious]
sometimes hints dont work. clear statements like the one you just made are needed instead...
[/serious]

critical question: should i make this a news item?

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by MarkG
GO DAN, GO!
(both hands and feet)

[serious]
sometimes hints dont work. clear statements like the one you just made are needed instead...
[/serious]

critical question: should i make this a news item?

Are you insane??? you trying to finally get rid of me?


Dan

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
Are you insane??? you trying to finally get rid of me?

imagine the titles


DAN MAGAHA TELLS ALL ABOUT FIRAXIS:
"I COULD TELL YOU THE TRUTH, BUT SID WOULD HAVE ME KILLED!"

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

I was thinking something more like, "Magaha opens mouth, inserts foot" or something to that effect.

[MarkG]

DAN MAGAHA REVEALS THE TEAM'S TRUE FEELINGS:
"NO, WE'RE DEFINATELY NOT SPITING IN YOUR FACES! THAT'S DISGUSTING!!"

[Dis]

this kind of reminds me of people that want to know every single detail about the war in afghanistan. Why is it necessary to know every single action that goes on in a game company.

sometimes I think the only way they will be happy is if you post every action you do on the game in a thread here. And when you get up to use the bathroom, you post that too, so people know why you aren't working on the patch

I really don't care how it gets done, or how much progress is made in 1 or 2 days. I only care about the final product.

I think patience is something they need to teach in schools. Forget math and science. Talk about an instant gratification generation in the western world. Jeez

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
I was thinking something more like, "Magaha opens mouth, inserts foot" or something to that effect.

that would be pretty catchy too!

[scientist]

A Sad State of Affairs

Dear Mr. Magaha,

We can imagine that it is easier to complain about a problem, as we do, than to fix it, as we hope Firaxis is in the process of doing. However, there are some issues of concern that have yet to be addressed by you or your company.

CivIII has a rushed feel to it. The documentation and first commercial release (dare I say, final beta) contain numerous quality control issues that suggest the game was in such a rush to go gold, that corners were cut in final production.

There is the annoying issue of the "designers' notes" that were promised with the LE but never delivered.

Infogrames heavy-handed approach with the fan community, as evidenced by their approach to the German translation effort and to
Hurricane gaming's online strategy guide.

These are real issues that have been brought up consistently by many people on these forums, yet never adequately addressed by Firaxis or Infogrames. Is it a surprise that after such silence that people have begun to get surly.

I am beginning to be of the opinion that Firaxis and Infogrames have a set policy to ignore any legitimate complaints in the hopes that the complaints will go away. I believe this is an error. People complain because they care. They will stop complaining when you either address their problems, or they cease to care anymore. When the hardcore fans cease caring, I think that you will find that the Civilization franchise, Firaxis and Infogrames will have lost a very valuable source of intellectual, marketing and monetary support.

There is developing a level of virulent disgust with Firaxis, Infogrames and CivIII on these forums that is really quiet extraordinary. I hope that perhaps you may bring it to your company's attention that this is a situation that needs serious addressing. Before people stop complaining and also stop caring.

Sincerely,

Michel Evanchik

[Akka]

Originally posted by MarkG
GO DAN, GO!
(both hands and feet)

[serious]
sometimes hints dont work. clear statements like the one you just made are needed instead...
[/serious]

Very true.
Hints are often used to lure people thinking that problems/upgrades will be resolved if they just are patient. Sometimes true, sometimes false.
Hints do not suffice, as they are often looked over with suspiscion. Many game companies have changed their general policy these days, the best example being Blizzard, which came straight from making addictive games nearly completely bug-free to making crap full of bugs.
I think that the reactions of many fans come from a fear about Firaxis changing and becoming a money-money company. Well, so far then these fans just show CONCERN about Firaxis
And probably that the previous example of Civ2 which was sold four times fuel the fear that they are considered as milk cows.

But well, acts speak louder than talks. If Firaxis can prove its concern about fans, they will stick with their loyalty.