That does it! I'm outta here...

[player1]

Originally posted by Darkknight
Right now I would trust Activision more then Firaxis/Infrogfames. I used to look up at Firaxians as gods. I'm 16 I have chosen game design as my hoped for career. My ambition was to someday work in the same company as Sid in 10 years or so but now I see you're just like everyone else. In it for the money F*ck the fans!

It's not the FIRAXIS, it is the INFOGRAMES.
They are the one to BLAME.

Now, Firaxis itself has been partialy guilty, because they agreed to support some sort NON-INFORMATION PACT with Infogrames before the relese of Civ3, so they couldn't say to us that game is about to ship non-finished.

Also that German issuse is NOT Firaxis fault, it is entirely Infogrames.

Pity,
Loctus was one of the best CTP scenario-mod designers.
Now, HE won't design anything for Civ3.

Pity...


P.S.
Can somebody from Apolytoners look at LEGAL TXT files of civ3 and find anything about rights to get not punished for moding the game.

As far as I understand. Only thing you should not do is to chage SOURCE CODE and to SELL your MODS & SCENARIOS.

And, I don't think that TXT files are source code.
If they are, then they shouldn't be viewable.
FIRAXIS SHOULD HIDE THIS THING IN PATCH,
because elsewhere someone else will be punished.

[August Borms]

Originally posted by player1
Pity,
Loctus was one of the best CTP scenario-mod designers.
Now, it won't design anything for Civ3.

it?



sad to see Locutus go....

oh wait, I haven't played Civ3 in weeks...

sad for YOU civ3 fans, not me, I stopped caring about Civ3 a long time ago

[player1]

That was a typo.

[player1]

I just hope that MOO3 won't be screwed up because of Infogrames.

Althought, there where some cuts it's nothing compared to Civ3 "cuts".

But, on the other hand MOO3 (master of Orion 3) is "maybe" a reason why Civ3 is rushed.
They didn't want these games to be released to close in time.
So they gave deadline to Firaxis.
And, rest is History...

[Robert]

but now they apparently expect us to ask for written permission before we make any modifications to the game. How many other games are there out there for which this is required? Such policy is absolutely rediculous, there is no excuse for it

We should all stop this hoax.
We could continue it, but nobody would get any profit from running such a hoax.

Infogrames has made one official reaction, and it was towards a group of people that wanted to release something that IG wanted to release itself.

Multiple mods and programms have already been written, and none of these resulted in any reaction from Infogrames.
Infogrames doesn't want us to ask a written permission to mod the game, it just doesn't want us to release something they want to release themselves.

Dan Magaha: Sorry to hear that. I was really looking forward to seeing what you could do with Civ III scenarios when the tools get up to snuff.

I think we can learn from this that the scenario tools will be improved, pherhaps with the soon to come patch, pherhaps later.

why did nobody react to this ?
Or is my english that bad that I don't know that 'up to snuff' means something like "It won't get any better ?" ?

anyway, Locotus, don't leave us because of a hoax, and for sure not before you've used the patch.

CyberShy

[Locutus]

Wow! Thanks for all the kind words and support guys I figured one or two people would come tell me how they regretted my decision and wave me goodbye but I didn't expect this kind of response (even from a Firaxian!). I must have done something right in the last few months Quite frankly half I expected y'all to critize my decision for being unfounded and irrational. I couldn't have been more wrong...

edit: Just realized this: here's a thread started by me AND posted in by Dan Magaha, yet Markos has NOT made a newsitem out of it. What are the odds of that ever happening? That in itself is worth making a newsitem about

Wernazuma,
I'll gladly help you out with the Ethiopians. I'll look into it sometime this week.

Ka Shima,
Noone at Firaxis has at any point denied the deficiencies of the editing tools, that's never been the problem (in fact, AFAIK everyone at Firaxis has acknowledged these problems from the very beginning).

Yin,
But I do love bugs! (Why else do you think I'm always so lyrical about CtP? ) However, only as long as the game is customizable enough to allow me to fix them myself

Assur,

it?

Actually, I think the experts still haven't reached consensus yet on whether Borg drones should be considered its or (s)hes

player1,
You make a good point about the MoO3 deadline issue, hadn't thought of that yet. MoO3 developments will be very interesting to follow, even for people who are only interested in Civ3...

Cybershy (et al),
They 'sued' a fan once, who says they won't do it again? Legally speaking they *are* correct so noone can stop 'em...

I don't think Kai would agree with you that the sh*t he's gotten involved in should be regarded a hoax, the events of the last week could have some very real consequences for him for a long time to come. My decision is not only because I fear being sued myself - which I do, to a certain extend; I'm certainly not willing to take my chances on it (out of principle I refuse to ask Infogrames or Firaxis for permission before I make any modifications) - but also because I feel obliged to somehow sympathise with this guy.

But as I explained above, my reasons for leaving are many, it's a combination of factors: the German translation scandal is only the last straw (as the Dutch saying goes: "it's the drop that makes the bucket flow over" - although in this case it's more a sizeable dash than a drop). The relatively poor quality of the game itself (the bugs/lack of balance, the 'conservative sequel', etc), the limited modding abilities, the way fans are being threated, etc, all these things combined make me leave, not just one or the other.

Sure, some things (MP, scenario support) could still be fixed (and Firaxians have promised to do this since even before the game was released) but I find it hard to believe that what is currently a poor game (for me anyway, as an advocate of 'progressive sequels' and a hard-core modmaker) will ever turn into an absolutely fantastic game. IMHO, the patches will be too little too late (I know from experience that customizibility (esp. scripting) is something that needs to be incorporated into a game-engine early on: with adding stuff afterwards you can only do so much). Although if I hear very good things about the patches in the future I will gladly take that back. In the meantime though, I'd rather focus my attention on something that's already fantastic (to me anyway), namely CtP...

Combine this with the poor way in which fans are being treated (the LE issue, the discrimination of non-Americans, the poor PR (to once again use Yin's words), the C&D orders, the slandering, etc) - for which there simply is no excuse IMHO - and I have completely lost all my interest in this game. Even if the patches are absolutely amazing and are beyond even my wildest dreams, I'm not sure if I can forgive Firaxis and Infogrames such behaviour (the exact role of each company in all of this is unclear but since they're publishing this game together neither company is entirely free of blame).

If in a few months I start hearing incredible things about Civ3's customizibility and if the CtP forums are dying out because everyone is switching to Civ3 (right now the reverse process is going on: the CtP forums are actually growing in activity, presumably because Civ3 is for some such a disappointment), I might have another look at Civ3. If the fans are being treated better and if I'm so impressed by the 'modding-power' I can't wait to get my hands dirty I might be able to let bygones be bygones. If that happens you'll see me reappearing here soon enough but, quite frankly, I (sceptical as I am) don't believe it's a possibility until it happens before my very eyes...

[hexagonian]

Welcome back to the CTP2 Modding community Locutus...Our gain!!!

Frankly, I am still holding out hope for the patch, but if it is merely a band-aid, then I hope my wife kept the receipt for civ3, because civ3 as a christmas gift will not make it to the New Year.

[Peter Triggs]

Right, Locutus,

But I do love bugs! (Why else do you think I'm always so lyrical about CtP?

So, how bout the multiplayer diplomacy bug you were working on, or that other multiplayer cheat bug. Somebody posted recently asking if it had ever been fixed; AFAIK no one ever's tried fixing it.

You Civ3 guys should notice the HUGE difference between CTP2 and Civ3 that the above comments reveal. In CTP2 when you find a bug, you think to yourself (well once you learn SLIC, but it's not that difficult) "How can I fix it?" With Civ3's lack of a scripting language and accessable data, all you can think is "I wonder how much whining it will take before I can get them to fix it?"

P.S., Welcome back!

[Robert]

Locotus: They 'sued' a fan once, who says they won't do it again? Legally speaking they *are* correct so noone can stop 'em...

Well, we've all learned something from that accident :
If IG sends you 'anything', don't hire a laywer, sign it and send it back. And further:

1. don't make any IRL info available about yourself
2. don't tell IG if you're going to release civ3 MP
3. be sure to live in a country that doesn't has an IG department (The Netherlands ?)

on the serious side:
I don't know if you read my (complete) opinion about the german translation incident (Read it in the thread) but I'm completely satisfied that in fact nothing very special happened. Anyway, there's no good reason to start that discussion overhere as well.

About civ3..........
I think the fact if you have fun playing a game shouldn't be dependant on the manufacturer or the reseller etc. etc.

It depends on the fact if you like it or not.
Imagine that civ3 would be the greatest game we'll ever see and we're all stuned about it.............. (I am btw )
But the company that created it is a bunch of @ssholes.
Should I cease playing the game for that reason ?
screw them ! I have my fun and I play it anyway.

Thus, if you really dislike civ3, cease playing it.
But if you like it, pherhaps after the patch, continue to play. You only hurt yourself to stop, you won't hurt Firaxis or IG !

CyberShy

[Trifna]

Bye bye Locutus...

Personally, I'm not sure I'll buy it either.

[Gromit]

Thus, if you really dislike civ3, cease playing it.

I have to say, after all is said and done, I think (when you get past all the irritating bits) that Civ3 is the best of all of them, arguably including the CTP games. Didn't barbarians appearing out of nowhere and still wasting your time between ending turns attacking you with 15 phalanx a turn after you just launch a ship for AC. Having to actually move caravans, diplomats and spies, etc, across whole continents and vast oceans for 10 gold a turn really get up anyone elses nose? The support offered to us still smells worse than a Sarlacc pit monster's rear end though.

My decision is to wait for the patch before I make my final judgement and being new here I obviously can't say for sure, but your work for and presence in the Sid Meier part of this community seems to be greatly appreaciated, did I read rightly that you were a project leader? Surely that is an indication of the respect you have and reading the opening post of this thread I for one think you deserve it.

[Sytass]

It's spelt Sarlacc.

[Gromit]

Hmm... on second thoughts, maybe it has an equal place with Test of Time - Elves, Dwarves and so on - What a good idea!

Thanks Sytass

[Ecowiz Returns]

You're right Locutus!!!

With all the effort you've put regarding Civ III, I hope Firaxis and Inforgame realize the loss.

For now, I decided not to buy CIV III.

I hope all of our friends, here, that thought of buying it for Christmas, for them, or to give, also decide not to buy this "five star" straight jacket that Inforgam offered to all those that like to customize their games.

[player1]

Personaly, I hope that many people will buy this game.

If they not, Infogrames will decide that patching is unnecesary (they lost much money & nobody bought it), and they'll abadon civ3.

That's the thing which happend to CTP2.
I hope that won't happen to Civ3.

Most games with expecting XP are usually patched well (like Stracraft).
But there are exeptions like Heroes of Might and Magic 3 (so many unbalancing units). At least it has a HotSeat.