Has the pessimism on this board gotten out of hand?

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by Shiva
Attacking someones english who isnt from an english speaking country. How sad. And your profile says your a teacher too? No wonder this country has so many problems.

I suppose Mr Pleasant, as I usually do, just looking near your forum avatar or your profile probably guess you are from an US city.
Yin26 had to specify his american origin after some funny trouble with posters guessing he was a Korean - Nothing wrong with Korea, of course, but it's always better to help people to classify you easily

BTW I know I probably do many mistakes in my english post (anyone feel free to PM to me any correction they deserve, specially english teachers). I can live with it, hope you can do the same!

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Jeje2

I simply don't anymore feel a need to buy it on first available date. (OK, most likely will buy it the first time I see it in a shop near me)

You might have to wait quite long for that day.
There's no information about the BTE's release
in Europe. Some speculations has said "first quarter 2002".

[tniem]

I would just like to say about pessimism getting out of hand, many tried including Yin in the first days of info on no MP to put it in the proper prespective. As I recall yin was very sceptical of the email.

He started a thread trying to suggest ways to help Firaxis weaken the pain we were feeling. I helped write what I thought would have been a good press release or at least a good statement to basically say "yeah were not including MP, but hell SP is just so sweat, that it ain't gonna matter." Of course we all know Firaxis sat on it. For whatever reason they didn't say anything. All it did was let pessimism to brew for a couple weeks. When all they really needed to do was come out and say the game is still going to rock to satisfy most of the complaints. Instead they finally released in an interview and update to their FAQ that MP was not going to make the cut. And you wonder why some people, my self included have some worries that we feel need to be expressed.

[Ozymandous]

Originally posted by Shiva

As for being inspired by Sid so what? Wonder how many RT games were inspired by Warcraft and fell flat on thier butt. Doesnt make them Warcraft. Blizzard makes it Warcraft the same way Sid makes it Civ and not some pale imitation.

Hmm, another example. Age of Empires and Age of Kings was also inspired by Warcraft and in were much better (IMHO).

The relevance? A game doesn't have to come from one company or person to be good, it just has to have good developers and a team to get it done.

(Psst. Shiva, Baaaa...)

[Shiva]

Originally posted by Ozymandous


Hmm, another example. Age of Empires and Age of Kings was also inspired by Warcraft and in were much better (IMHO).

The relevance? A game doesn't have to come from one company or person to be good, it just has to have good developers and a team to get it done.

(Psst. Shiva, Baaaa...)

Yes but again you cannot say what Warcraft3 will do based what was done by Age Of Empires. Warcrafts track record is based on Warcraft not what it has inspired. That same holds true with Civ.

[Shiva]

Originally posted by Adm.Naismith


I suppose Mr Pleasant, as I usually do, just looking near your forum avatar or your profile probably guess you are from an US city.
Yin26 had to specify his american origin after some funny trouble with posters guessing he was a Korean - Nothing wrong with Korea, of course, but it's always better to help people to classify you easily

BTW I know I probably do many mistakes in my english post (anyone feel free to PM to me any correction they deserve, specially english teachers). I can live with it, hope you can do the same!

Thing is people shouldnt be flamed for the country they are from just the ideas they hold

[Imran Siddiqui]

But if MP is left out blaiming on hurry - what more I ask myself is hurried?
(A question good PR could help a lot) So right now I still feel like spring would be better time.

Actually though I think it is a good sign. MP would have been rushed and probably very buggy if they released it now. They are saying that they won't have it done, so they won't rush it. Saying that SP is done, and tested adequatly, and MP isn't. Lot of companies would simply tack on a horrible MP component just to get it out the door (if the SP was done already).

[tniem]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
[Actually though I think it is a good sign. MP would have been rushed and probably very buggy if they released it now. They are saying that they won't have it done, so they won't rush it. Saying that SP is done, and tested adequatly, and MP isn't. Lot of companies would simply tack on a horrible MP component just to get it out the door (if the SP was done already).

See this is the exact point where we disagree. I respect your opinion, I really do. And I believe you are correct that most studios probably would have just sent the game out the door with the poor MP capabilities.

But that does not in my opinion lead to good news. See you clearly believe what Firaxis tells you and have great faith in Sid. Good for you. I am glad for you. In fact I wish that I could have the same faith.

I, for one, have been burned enough by not only game companies but others that make me look at every statement with a grain of salt. So Firaxis telling me that SP is totally ready just doesn't necessarily make me confident in the game. I look at the fact that only a month and a half ago they changed the civ attributes of a few and they added peaceful golden age wonders to mean that they were still tinkering with things that need to be tested for months against the AI to see if it can handle it. Then on top of that they tell me that they were no where near getting MP done. MP is something in today's market that should have been started from the beginning. So I have to wonder what else they are failing to tell us.

So I guess this is the point where we differ and it is not because I feel that I am overly pessimistic nor because I don't respect your opinion, but simply that because of our backgrounds I cannot have the faith that you do. And so I do have some serious concerns about the game and so whenever someone says this game is going to rock and you all are just whining, I will continue to make a small post of why they should be a little weary. That is all. Hopefully you can respect that to a degree.

[VetLegion]

So, yes, I do see you as a spoiled brat, leading whining children. Sorry if you don't like my analogy.

being one of the people who posted against SP only civ3, I have to say your insults are, well, simply insults

I dont think I am 'whining children' and neither that I can or will simply be 'led' by anyone. Really bad 'arguments' from your side Imran.


and I repeat my opinion on this; it is easy to play MP game in singleplay, but adding MP to a singleplay game is not easy. MP is not a simple thing, adding it will not be simple if the game was not designed and tested in MP.

but I have explained what I think in other threads, so I leave the web space to others.

[Imran Siddiqui]

tniem, I guess I can understand that.

However, I hope that you can understand WHY they didn't start the MP from the beginning. After all, Civ has always been known as a SP game, mostly, and that is how Firaxis has seen it. So, they wanted to get the SP done, and then work on the MP.

I do have faith in Firaxis, they haven't let me down. I know what you are talking about with other companies. Activision's treatment with respect to CtP2 was horrid, and other companies have the same attitude.

However, I hope that Firaxis will make you see that there are good guys in the business.

VetLegion: Yes, they were insults. And yes that is what the people that share your opinion seem like. Sorry...

[yin26]

So let's all see Imran for what he is: A guy 'crusading' for constructive comments by using (in his own words) insults.

Brilliant!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, I don't see any constructive criticism, and simply broad generalizations and more than a few insults at Firaxis, so I'm insulting back. I jump right into the fray, not stay back.

And what was that about staying away from this thread Yin? Another lie you've told. Why am I not surprised .

[yin26]

As long as you admit your own hypocrisy, we are making progess.

[ColdWizard]

who needs civ3 when this forum provides so much entertainment?

1. people post how great civ 3 will be
2. people post about things they don't like
3. optimists bash pessimists
4. pessimists bash optimists
5. goto #3

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yin: Now to admit yours (which will never ever happen, but are more numerous than mine shall ever be).

I have yet to see how you can have constructive comments towards destructive ones.