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  • #61
    Originally posted by Shiva


    Then you agree using it in an argument having to do with anything about Civ3 is baseless since Civ2 was far better.
    I said a "better game" not a "far better game". Fact is, they were very close in conceptual terms. Civ2 had a better interface, felt less cluttered by tons of city improvements that CTP with its massive number of buildings, and while CTP might have gone far beyond Civ2 with its future stuff, the fact that the AI could not handle ANY of the future stuff at all (look at those crappy sea city placements) make all of that a detriment. CTP also had a bit much micromanagement for my tastes. Far better game? No. Better? Yes.


    Bahhh the hell you say. You may think that but take a look at the top 100 game lists. You'll almost always find it. You'll also find its one of the most sought after games out there at the freeware sites, not to mention Pirates for windows CD's being sold on Ebay.
    What's your point other than bad taste is rampant!

    Comment

    • #62
      Jeje, I understand that. I do. There was some of that feeling with SMAC. Also EU2 does look good. EU was ok for me, but not as good as other games. Events and choices would make the game very nice (like it should have been the first time in my opinion).

      And yes, the PR was bad. Firaxis has never had good PR (they don't seem to spend a lot of time thinking about it). However, does that mean that they should be boycotted for it? At least they give us SOMETHING! Some companies don't even do that (look at Sierra)!

      Why should we release the game in the Spring, and penalize the SP people? And yes, btw, if MP was done now, I'd say release MP, and then release SP later. One group shouldn't be penalized because everything isn't ready (which is why I also oppose worldwide release dates).
      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

      Comment

      • #63
        MP:

        Perhaps the bad taste is yours?

        A lot of people on this forum would think so.
        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

        Comment

        • #64
          Originally posted by Jeje2

          FIRAXIS should really do their beta good
          Ummm what makes you think that their beta was not done good?
          The eagle soars and flies in peace and casts its shadow wide Across the land, across the seas, across the far-flung skies. The foolish think the eagle weak, and easy to bring to heel. The eagle's wings are silken, but its claws are made of steel. So be warned, you would-be hunters, attack it and you die, For the eagle stands for freedom, and that will always fly.

          Darkness makes the sunlight so bright that our eyes blur with tears. Challenges remind us that we are capable of great things. Misery sharpens the edges of our joy. Life is hard. It is supposed to be.

          Comment

          • #65
            MP:

            Perhaps the bad taste is yours?

            A lot of people on this forum would think so.
            Ahh, but their taste is so bad that they mistake my excellent taste for bad. It's like eating at McFishwiches at McDonalds your whole life, and then complaining about the grilled salmon steaks.

            Comment

            • #66
              Stricken from the record for both poor taste and lack of pluralism.
              Last edited by Guest; October 15, 2001, 03:32.

              Comment

              • #67
                Originally posted by Mister Pleasant


                I said a "better game" not a "far better game". Fact is, they were very close in conceptual terms. Civ2 had a better interface, felt less cluttered by tons of city improvements that CTP with its massive number of buildings, and while CTP might have gone far beyond Civ2 with its future stuff, the fact that the AI could not handle ANY of the future stuff at all (look at those crappy sea city placements) make all of that a detriment. CTP also had a bit much micromanagement for my tastes. Far better game? No. Better? Yes.
                Then you agree using it in an argument having to do with anything about Civ3 is baseless since Civ2 was better.



                Originally posted by Mister Pleasant
                What's your point other than bad taste is rampant!
                The point is the game was a big success, and is still held as one greats which you have said it isnt. Popular opinion invalidates your calling it otherwise no matter how biased to it you are. Sorry facts are facts and you cant argue with it. Its one thing to say in your opinion, its something again to flat out state everyone who holds a differing opinion to you is wrong.

                The eagle soars and flies in peace and casts its shadow wide Across the land, across the seas, across the far-flung skies. The foolish think the eagle weak, and easy to bring to heel. The eagle's wings are silken, but its claws are made of steel. So be warned, you would-be hunters, attack it and you die, For the eagle stands for freedom, and that will always fly.

                Darkness makes the sunlight so bright that our eyes blur with tears. Challenges remind us that we are capable of great things. Misery sharpens the edges of our joy. Life is hard. It is supposed to be.

                Comment

                • #68
                  Originally posted by Mister Pleasant


                  You need to learn your English gooder, jeje2.

                  Attacking someones english who isnt from an english speaking country. How sad. And your profile says your a teacher too? No wonder this country has so many problems.
                  The eagle soars and flies in peace and casts its shadow wide Across the land, across the seas, across the far-flung skies. The foolish think the eagle weak, and easy to bring to heel. The eagle's wings are silken, but its claws are made of steel. So be warned, you would-be hunters, attack it and you die, For the eagle stands for freedom, and that will always fly.

                  Darkness makes the sunlight so bright that our eyes blur with tears. Challenges remind us that we are capable of great things. Misery sharpens the edges of our joy. Life is hard. It is supposed to be.

                  Comment

                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Shiva



                    Attacking someones english who isnt from an english speaking country. How sad. And your profile says your a teacher too? No wonder this country has so many problems.
                    Whoops. Apologies.

                    Comment

                    • #70
                      Hey, Mister Pleasant: Thanks again for giving the heads up on the MP thing. I know you caught a lot of heat for it...but it was great info despite the way it reached us.
                      I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

                      "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

                      Comment

                      • #71
                        Then you agree using it in an argument having to do with anything about Civ3 is baseless since Civ2 was better.
                        My argument that being "Civ" (either Sid or CTP incarnation) does not guarantee a good game? Not sure what you mean here . . . Or I forgot what you're talking about.

                        The point is the game was a big success, and is still held as one greats which you have said it isnt. Popular opinion invalidates your calling it otherwise no matter how biased to it you are.
                        Popular opinion proves nothing except what the majority believes. It was once popular opinion that the Earth was flat. Didn't make it so. In the same vein, popular opinion does not make pirates great.

                        Sorry facts are facts and you cant argue with it. Its one thing to say in your opinion, its something again to flat out state everyone who holds a differing opinion to you is wrong.
                        Lighten up.

                        Comment

                        • #72
                          Originally posted by yin26
                          Hey, Mister Pleasant: Thanks again for giving the heads up on the MP thing. I know you caught a lot of heat for it...but it was great info despite the way it reached us.
                          I probably would have been suspicious myself. Thing is, I got the email and immediately posted because I was in shock that the no multiplayer info fell into my lap so easily. Of course I can probably write off ever getting an evaluation copy of anything from Firaxis ever again. But that's OK.

                          Comment

                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Mister Pleasant
                            My argument that being "Civ" (either Sid or CTP incarnation) does not guarantee a good game? Not sure what you mean here . . . Or I forgot what you're talking about.
                            The argument was that Civ is Civ not CTP as Crouchback tried to link it and Fluxcapacitor was false. Once again I didnt say Civ3 will good bad or anything else. Just that two are apples to oranges.


                            Originally posted by Mister Pleasant
                            Popular opinion proves nothing except what the majority believes. It was once popular opinion that the Earth was flat. Didn't make it so. In the same vein, popular opinion does not make pirates great.
                            Nor does one mans opinion invalidate everyone elses. Your the one who stated everyone who liked it was wrong. Your the one that needs to lighten up.
                            The eagle soars and flies in peace and casts its shadow wide Across the land, across the seas, across the far-flung skies. The foolish think the eagle weak, and easy to bring to heel. The eagle's wings are silken, but its claws are made of steel. So be warned, you would-be hunters, attack it and you die, For the eagle stands for freedom, and that will always fly.

                            Darkness makes the sunlight so bright that our eyes blur with tears. Challenges remind us that we are capable of great things. Misery sharpens the edges of our joy. Life is hard. It is supposed to be.

                            Comment

                            • #74
                              Nor does one mans opinion invalidate everyone elses. Your the one who stated everyone who liked it was wrong. Your the one that needs to lighten up.
                              I swear, if you don't put a smiley next to something the kids take you so seriously.

                              The argument was that Civ is Civ not CTP as Crouchback tried to link it and Fluxcapacitor was false. Once again I didnt say Civ3 will good bad or anything else. Just that two are apples to oranges.
                              Oh that. I was pointing out that CTP was civ (construed conceptually as opposed to in-name. But I guess CTP1 WAS civ in-name as well . . . ). But the point is somewhat moot because I liked CTP. On the other hand, legions of Apolytoners didn't like it. Yet it was civ nonetheless. Thus a game being a civ game does not guarantee it will satisfy us.

                              Comment

                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                                PR
                                However, does that mean that they should be boycotted for it? At least they give us SOMETHING! Some companies don't even do that (look at Sierra)!

                                Why should we release the game in the Spring, and penalize the SP people? And yes, btw, if MP was done now, I'd say release MP, and then release SP later. One group shouldn't be penalized because everything isn't ready.
                                Imran
                                You have a very good point. MP shouldn't a reason for delaying SP.
                                (Quake 3 MP demo was released half a year before SP, becouse they had problems with making a good SP.) So yes Imran, I stand corrected.

                                But if MP is left out blaiming on hurry - what more I ask myself is hurried?
                                (A question good PR could help a lot) So right now I still feel like spring would be better time.


                                About boycooting I really don't have any opinion except my own desicion.
                                I will buy Civ3 tin box someday - I simply don't anymore feel a need to buy it on first available date. (OK, most likely will buy it the first time I see it in a shop near me )

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