Mike Breitkreutz, now you're here, can you please say something about MP ?

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
more pressure would transmit the message that delaying a response to rack up preorders isn't going over well with the people - the same people they want to look like happy neighbors to.

pressure directed to the wrong people...

Ask the civ team would probably get filtered out. They only read a handful of letters, censored to bits.

so you're saying that firaxis has a filter for MP mails?

[Wiglaf]

they wish

actually I'm saying that not all letters are read. the actual number that are considered is quite a bit less than the amount sent.

[TechWins]

actually I'm saying that not all letters are read. the actual number that are considered is quite a bit less than the amount sent.

I couldn't agree more with this. Only, what is it, four questions are answered. That is pretty pathetic to tell you the truth. I always thought Firaxis could make more of an attempt to answer questions on the "ask" the civ team and we "will try" to answer your question(s). That is a load of ****, they have answered only one question of mine (a motive behind the answering of the question, though) and I have sent a plethora of questions to Firaxis. Not to mention what do they really need our e-mail addresses for? I have only receive one e-mail from Firaxis saying that the new civ3.com site opened, which was completely useless I should add. All this is beside the point and I'm not too mad by it, either.

ahh, but his recent one was more of a jab at our intelligence.. "email our PR guys". who's he kiddin? If there is a business motive, which there is, I don't think we should heap on the 'he loves us, he really does' praise just yet

Did you even read this? -> "he is not required to do so". Usually one someone goes out of their way to do something for you (regrardless of how it might benefit them) it is appreciated. Plus, Mike is probably not even authorized to release info about MP, yet.

Mike good. Firaxis bad.

[tniem]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
"Thanks for the reply Mike. Please understand most of us are not mad at you. We just wish that someone from Firaxis would explain MP to us. That is all, just a simple post on your own website."

you totally caved in

Well it would be hypocritical of me not to thank a programmer when I have been asking for him to do. Am I happy with his response? No that is why if you continue to read the quote of mine that you put up that I tell him that we are not mad at an individual programmer but the company. I also let him know what would satisfy me. Which is for Dan to simply post on the website one answer or another to the question about MP. Hopefully he can forward that on to his superiors.

I don't think it is caving, it is just recognizing that Mike cannot answer my question. He can however continue to read my posts if that is what he claims to do when he is on ACS.

Our Money ---- Firaxis ---- Mike > programmers
Our Money XXX Firaxis =
Our Money XXX Mike > programmers

So I understand that you believe that if Civ 3 does poorly that you think Mike will be out of a job. Well that seems like a silly position to take when you figure there are a ton of companies out there that would love to add experienced programmers. As Markos already said all those on Activision's team found new employment.

The other thing to understand is that Firaxis has another game in the works - SM's Sim Golf. If it does well than why would Mike care? He is already being paid by what Infogrames has given for developement of the game. And if one of the games does well I can guarantee that Firaxis will live to make some more games. So his job is probably pretty darn safe.

so why are we all saying "thank you"? that's why I'm so confused...why are we loving mike to death for doing something he all but had to do? because he seems initiated in the community and on the level with us - a bonus every company likes to have.

Again read my quote. I am thanking Mike for what he can give us. He told us that he is reading ACS. He cannot answer the MP question. I have been taught some manners, and that means I thank people for giving me something they didn't have to. As others have pointed out, Firaxis does not have to post on this site, and many times they go a while without doing so. So when they do I think it is common courtesy to at least thank them for taking some time out of their busy schedule to let us know some nugget about the game.

I'm a huge civ fan and I can't wait for civ3. So when I have an important question and a firaxis guy avoids it like some sort of terrible disease, I can only assume that Mike only checked in to shut us up.

Well it is not going to shut me up in another thread, but in one where the whole thing is to get a programmer to answer a pr question, i will shut up. If you have a problem with this then good for you. But I will do the common sense thing and continue my crusade some where else.

[Wiglaf]

Usually one someone goes out of their way to do something for you (regrardless of how it might benefit them) it is appreciated.

To me that doesn't apply here, Mike's post was textbook PR. Had he been speaking from our standpoint, I doubt he'd direct us to Ask the Civ Team. It takes little guessing to figure out just what kind of response you'll get from them. Probably none.

I'm not actually blaming Mike himself. I'm trying to understand why all of you are so moved by his response. It wasn't helpful, it should've been a trust crusher. Instead it turned all of us into mere mortals kneeling to Firaxis' altar.

"Discouraging" is the word I was looking for this whole time. We asked a direct question and we got a link that essentially leads to a 404.

As for Mike's job, I doubt he wants to be fired, so there you go.

[TechWins]

I'm trying to understand why all of you are so moved by his response

I don't see how my post could be taken as being so touching. All I said was thanks Mike for a reply in that manner or something to that affect. You may be overestimating on how much we are gratified by Mike's post. Yes, we appreciate his post but we have not gained much happiness from it.

I can't believe all this discussion has been created by one single post.

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Ask the civ team would probably get filtered out. They only read a handful of letters, censored to bits.

Just FYI, I do not censor or even edit any of the e-mails we print on the "ask the Civ team" responses. They are printed wholly intact, spelling errors, bad grammar and all.

Do we read every single one? Sorry to say, but it's just not possible. There are literally THOUSANDS of emails in that box, and there's no way I could read them all.

As far as which letters we print, there are a lot of messages sent askthecivteam that are just not suitable to print for one reason or another: some are written so poorly no one would understand what the question was. Some make liberal use of profanity, others send suggestions instead of questions. Some are kinda tasteless (like the bunch we got last week asking us if we would put terrorism into the game), and still others are so long that I couldn't possibly post them because they'd literally scroll on and on for minutes at a time.

When it comes time to answering a few of them for an Ask the Civ Team, I try to find a couple of interesting, reasonably written questions, and I answer to them as best I can, or if I don't know the answer, I'll find someone who does.

Another thing you have to realize is that many of the people who visit civ3.com are not hard-core, knowledgeable civers like you guys who are already on top of everything happening with the game. A balance has to be struck between discussing topics that are interesting to the hardcore fans and topics that are interesting to the casual visitor to the site who wants to know more about what's going on with Civ3. I try to do both wherever possible.

Dan

[tniem]

Dan thank you very much for posting on this thread. We appreciate that you guys at Firaxis read what we have to say. Thank you for clearing up miconceptions of the Ask the Civ team. However, Dan I am giong to assume that since you have yet to answer our question about MP either way - that you guys still have no idea. Well I find that a little disheatening. Thanks though for your time.

[TechWins]

Dan, I understand most of your position on the "ask the civ team". I just don't see why you can't answer maybe 8-10 questions at a time, instead of 4.

Plus, one question that you need to answer. When will you release info on whether or not MP will be included?

[tniem]

Wiglaf - go ahead and begin criticizing my above post to Dan. I want to honestly know what you think about it.

Originally posted by Wiglaf
To me that doesn't apply here, Mike's post was textbook PR. Had he been speaking from our standpoint, I doubt he'd direct us to Ask the Civ Team. It takes little guessing to figure out just what kind of response you'll get from them. Probably none.

He cannot speak from our standpoint, he is a designer. His company is undecided as to what they are going to do. So what do you want him to say? That Firaxis is arguing over this? I mean that he could lose his job over. Not the crap you keep spewing.

I'm not actually blaming Mike himself. I'm trying to understand why all of you are so moved by his response. It wasn't helpful, it should've been a trust crusher. Instead it turned all of us into mere mortals kneeling to Firaxis' altar.

None of us were moved with his respone. All we are doing is thanking him for his time. Just as I would thank you for your time if you did or said anything that I was interested in. I can't understand why you cannot understand that. Go read the other MP threads, I have continued to rant against the treatment. But this thread is about Mike and he has nothing to do with what Firaxis decides on MP. So I will leave him alone as I should. And go on to the PR and managerial position people.

"Discouraging" is the word I was looking for this whole time. We asked a direct question and we got a link that essentially leads to a 404.

We have been asking the same question on other threads and have had no response. They even somewhat addressed it in the Ask the Civ team but again gave a round about answer. What is Mike going to give us that will satisfy us? Nothing. We already knew that they are currently ignoring the issue. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

As for Mike's job, I doubt he wants to be fired, so there you go.

Exactly so he is not going to give us information that he is not entitled to give or Firaxis is ready to reveal. So why should I not thank him for working hard and then I will go on and try and come into contact with more important people like those from Infogrames?

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by TechWins
Dan, I understand most of your position on the "ask the civ team". I just don't see why you can't answer maybe 8-10 questions at a time, instead of 4.

Plus, one question that you need to answer. When will you release info on whether or not MP will be included?

Tell you what, I'll do my best to get a couple more questions answered on the next edition..


Dan

[korn469]

thanks Dan!

ps who do we make the bribes out to?

[Wiglaf]

Wiglaf - go ahead and begin criticizing my above post to Dan. I want to honestly know what you think about it.

Dan thank you very much for posting on this thread. We appreciate that you guys at Firaxis read what we have to say. Thank you for clearing up miconceptions of the Ask the Civ team. However, Dan I am giong to assume that since you have yet to answer our question about MP either way - that you guys still have no idea. Well I find that a little disheatening. Thanks though for your time.

it's perfect

I think you guys are getting the wrong message from my posts. What I've tried to say is, Mike's reply was nice and it's great to know Firaxis bothers to post here; at the same time, you have to realize there is business motive and money is involved. Posting within a message board furthers a sense of community more than any prewritten PR statement ever could.

Personally I am extremely confused as to how they manage to post here. It's something rarely done with any degree of consistancy as far as game companies are concerned, so maybe I'm reacting with a 'confrontational' approach is because this is a relatively new thing going on.

So, Dan or Mike or any other Firaxis employees, I gather, (as tniem said) cannot answer our questions about MP at this point? Personally I believe this is too bad, because the entire civ3 community here would like to know, before we pay $50 for the boxed copy, the exact specs of the title.

Is there a solid response on the matter? Why would MP be separate from SP?

Tell you what, I'll do my best to get a couple more questions answered on the next edition..

[star mouse]

A lot of people have been complaining about the likely lack of multiplayer in the game without fully understanding the issues involved with the implementation of multiplayer. The biggest problem with multiplayer?

Cheaters.

If a game does not provide adequate protection against cheaters, then the multiplayer gaming experience will be a bad experience for every honest player that plays against a cheater. Unless anti-cheating protection is built into the game, a cheater will be able to see the whole map, know the location and type of all your units, perhaps even see the build queues for all your cities. It is the suppression of access to such unauthorised information that makes multiplayer gaming so difficult to implement.

It is for this reason that most patches to games address multiplayer issues. It is why players with older versions of online games must upgrade before joining games with newer versions.

I'm expecting the game to be released with hotseat multiplayer only. I'm hoping that other multiplayer options will be released as a downloadable extra when they are ready.

[Wiglaf]

interesting point. IMO there's no real way to stop cheaters, though, as Blizzard found out with their games. someone dedicated enough could easily crack the code. putting a lot of time into it would probably be wasted resources.