Mike Breitkreutz, now you're here, can you please say something about MP ?

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
I'm just annoyed that everytime someone from firaxis posts, we all say something like "a god has spoken" or "we aren't mad at you". When a gaming company gets you to think they have a one-on-one relationship with the consumer, they secure your trust and then your fifty bucks. If I worked as a programmer for a major release, I probably wouldn't care if one of 10,000 users on apolyton was angry at me or thought me a deity.

It works the same way as strippers. They are very good at smiling at men or talking to them in a way that makes you think they really care about you and are interested in you personally. And of course the men who go to strip clubs are as incredibly fixated on the women as us Apolyton civ-freaks are on Civ3. So when a stripper whispers in a man's ear he'll break down and fork over money. When a Firaxis programmer posts in a gamer's thread he'll break down and fork over money.

I encourage you all to be strong! Don't cut Mike or anyone else any slack, its typical pass the buck tactics. Of course no one we could talk to is personally responsible for any of the decisions made in the game. Everything is decided by 'others' or by groups confering. Mike however works there, he knows whoever it is that makes decisions, or at least knows what is going on so they can tell us. If Mike or anyone else gave a damn about us they could tell that person there are quite a lot of pissed of civ-fans out there who want answers.

Of course they already know we are here, but they are ignoring us anyways.

The boycott stands!

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Mike has a job, he's asking for our $50-$70 - we deserve an answer.

Mike is not asking for our $
The company that he works for does.
If we deserve an answer, it's from the companies that develop and publish Civ3, not a from a from someone whose job description doesnt include giving official answers to our questions....

[Wiglaf]

Mike is not asking for our $
The company that he works for does.
If we deserve an answer, it's from the companies that develop and publish Civ3, not a from a from someone whose job description doesnt include giving official answers to our questions....

mike is asking for our money, he needs it to feed himself. in order to boost profit, answering upset consumers on a pretty populated message board is very reasonable...only you cannot discuss anything not already covered by the higher ups.

So when mike posts, "ask the PR guys", he's essentially saying you won't get an answer - at the same time, though, he managed to shut all of the people previously complaining right up.

in other words, mike's posting makes firaxis appear involved in the community, and that sure doesn't hurt. we know the same information (or lack thereof) now as we did before he posted, only no one's upset anymore.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
mike is asking for our money, he needs it to feed himself.

firaxis feeds mike, not you and me. he is an employee not a company.

So when mike posts, "ask the PR guys", he's essentially saying you won't get an answer

no, he is just saying "it's not my job to make such announcements". if you send a complaint mail to mike about mp and dont get answer, you have no reason to complain. if you send a message on the feedback page or whatever they have on the site and dont get any kind of answers, you do have a reason to complain

we know the same information (or lack thereof) now as we did before he posted, only no one's upset anymore.

actually, the discussion on MP had nearly died several days before mike's post....

[tniem]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
mike is asking for our money, he needs it to feed himself. in order to boost profit, answering upset consumers on a pretty populated message board is very reasonable...only you cannot discuss anything not already covered by the higher ups.

No he is not. That is not how it works. He is hired to make the game's code. He is being paid. He has a job until the company folds or fires people. So him doing good work is important. But if the game doesn't sell it won't be his fault and if he did good work he can find another job. In your company, are you responsible for the company's bottom line? No, it might impact you but it is not necessarily your job. He is just doing his job which has nothing to do with sales.

So when mike posts, "ask the PR guys", he's essentially saying you won't get an answer - at the same time, though, he managed to shut all of the people previously complaining right up.

What he is saying is that it is not his job to answer the questions. He is telling us he is reading what we have to say but that he cannot give out info that he is not allowed to do. Which is the proper answer. And while we may not get an answer from the PR, if he is doing his job we will not get an answer from him so he is giving us the proper people to talk to.

in other words, mike's posting makes firaxis appear involved in the community, and that sure doesn't hurt. we know the same information (or lack thereof) now as we did before he posted, only no one's upset anymore.

And I am telling you that your wrong. I am still mad about the whole situation. But there is nothing I can do or he can do. So what am I supposed to do? Continue yelling at a guy that can't answer us anyways? Alright you do that but I am not going to waste my time.

[Wiglaf]

And I am telling you that your wrong. I am still mad about the whole situation. But there is nothing I can do or he can do. So what am I supposed to do? Continue yelling at a guy that can't answer us anyways? Alright you do that but I am not going to waste my time.

"Thanks for the reply Mike. Please understand most of us are not mad at you. We just wish that someone from Firaxis would explain MP to us. That is all, just a simple post on your own website."

you totally caved in

firaxis feeds mike, not you and me. he is an employee not a company.

Our Money ---- Firaxis ---- Mike > programmers
Our Money XXX Firaxis =
Our Money XXX Mike > programmers



so basically, it's in the best interest of mike that we buy the game, because that translates into pay hikes; alternatively, a bomb translates into unemployment - so he is asking for our money, whether it technically feeds him or not.

What he is saying is that it is not his job to answer the questions. He is telling us he is reading what we have to say but that he cannot give out info that he is not allowed to do. Which is the proper answer. And while we may not get an answer from the PR, if he is doing his job we will not get an answer from him so he is giving us the proper people to talk to.

so why are we all saying "thank you"? that's why I'm so confused...why are we loving mike to death for doing something he all but had to do? because he seems initiated in the community and on the level with us - a bonus every company likes to have.

I'm a huge civ fan and I can't wait for civ3. So when I have an important question and a firaxis guy avoids it like some sort of terrible disease, I can only assume that Mike only checked in to shut us up.

[MarkG]

Wiglaf, you failed to answer to this

That is not how it works. He is hired to make the game's code. He is being paid. He has a job until the company folds or fires people. So him doing good work is important. But if the game doesn't sell it won't be his fault and if he did good work he can find another job. In your company, are you responsible for the company's bottom line? No, it might impact you but it is not necessarily your job. He is just doing his job which has nothing to do with sales.

[Wiglaf]

That is not how it works. He is hired to make the game's code. He is being paid. He has a job until the company folds or fires people. So him doing good work is important. But if the game doesn't sell it won't be his fault and if he did good work he can find another job. In your company, are you responsible for the company's bottom line? No, it might impact you but it is not necessarily your job. He is just doing his job which has nothing to do with sales.

I'm not sure what you're getting at there. If civ3 tanks, things will not bode well for Firaxis programmers. Therefore Mike and others will do everything in their power to boost sales, but I'm sure they've cleared their forum presence here with higher-ups. Allowing your workers to chat it up about everything on a public message board isn't a logical thing to do, given the nature of the industry.

Whether or not civ3 does poorly, programmers can still be assigned to have an internet presence. IMO mike is here on a PR trip to make firaxis a "part of the community" and all that nice warm and fuzzy stuff right up until you hit the store shelves. lay down the $50, and walk out. it makes sense.

If I'm still not answering your question or even coming close, please clarify

[Fallen_Avatar]

Catch 22...don't post, and you'll alienate the customers...

Tell then no MP...you'll alienate customers...

Say nothing, but promise great things are on the way...and the drones may well stop complaining...

Which way did you think they'd go?

May sound cynical...but I was promised patches for Ultima 9 and CtP II...both games were left broken and incomplete. Now if Origin and EA can let you down...what makes you think I'll have any more faith in Firaxis?
-Fallen_Avatar

[faded glory]

I agree...

But if we are shafted bye Civ3 and Firaxis. That is it for the Civilization series.The reason Activisions profits were hammered was simple. Was because, word got out the Mplayer did not work, and that single player a freakin sack of freakin bugs that couldnt even go 50 turns without crashing.Once word got out, people began returning the game and that was it.

Many of us CTP2 users resent activision for selling us a broken game . We dont quite trust everybody....

Pelase Firaxis, dont let us down! Or you will pay a fatal price. Users will react the same way they did to Activision.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
I'm not sure what you're getting at there. If civ3 tanks, things will not bode well for Firaxis programmers.

doubt it.
i know of people from the ctp2 team who instantly found jobs in other companies no matter it's failure...

[TechWins]

I'm not sure what you're getting at there. If civ3 tanks, things will not bode well for Firaxis programmers.

The programmers will most likely not get the brunt of the "punishment" if the game flops. Usually programmers are assigned work to perform. The work that that is being performed is what makes the game. The people who usually create the work for the programmers to perform are the creative development team and other game development groups. It is not the programmers fault for a failed game usually.

To give my overall opinion on the subject of Mike's post. Yes, Mike will is only posting here to entice customers to buy Civ3 but he is not required to do so. In not being required to do so Mike can answer any question he feels fitting. While, Mike may be having a business motive behind his posting all his posts should be appreciated.

[Wiglaf]

doubt it.
i know of people from the ctp2 team who instantly found jobs in other companies no matter it's failure...

maybe mike will be as lucky, or maybe he won't. Bottom line: he wants us to buy civ3. Having programmed for a big hit is better than working on a dud, anyway you slice it.

the point of my rant is simple: mike gave us a PR statement, not an actual response. Is that his fault? Maybe, probably not. Does it deserve a 'thanks, keep up the good work, we love you'? Nope. If anything, it deserves more pressure for an answer.

there are disclosure agreements programmers sign, right?

While, Mike may be having a business motive behind his posting all his posts should be appreciated.

ahh, but his recent one was more of a jab at our intelligence.. "email our PR guys". who's he kiddin? If there is a business motive, which there is, I don't think we should heap on the 'he loves us, he really does' praise just yet

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
there are disclosure agreements programmers sign, right?

dont think they actually something like that, but you can be sure there rules on what they discuss in public. and under these rules, it is certain he has no "right" to discuss such a big issue perhaps when the company hasnt even decided what is going to be done.

therefore, what will more "pressure" towards mike do in this case? nothing at all

[Wiglaf]

dont think they actually something like that, but you can be sure there rules on what they discuss in public. and under these rules, it is certain he has no "right" to discuss such a big issue perhaps when the company hasnt even decided what is going to be done.

therefore, what will more "pressure" towards mike do in this case? nothing at all

the alternative is to dump on praise, and that just isn't justified. more pressure would transmit the message that delaying a response to rack up preorders isn't going over well with the people - the same people they want to look like happy neighbors to.

Ask the civ team would probably get filtered out. They only read a handful of letters, censored to bits. Granted, yelling at Mike would accomplish little, but it'd do worlds more than just "thanks, you're a god to me man".

No need to yell, actually. Just a polite "that's not good enough, Breitkreutz" would suffice.