ASK The CIV TEAM 8/22/01!

[OneFootInTheGrave]

I played CTP I/ II, and found the army system really satisfying.
At first i thought that Civ III will have a very similar system with the advantage of great leaders (which is a way forward).

But it seems now that Civ III army siystem will be totally simplified. Ok we have to wait and see, but this was my first impression after reading Q & A on civ3.com

CTP system was easy for novices too. Everyone would know that putting more units in the stack means a better fighting chance. But balancing the stack well, was a challenge for more experienced players. So simplicity should not be the issue, perhaps firaxis was aftaid that they would not be able to teach AI to use big stacks properly, with more abilities, and combinations to chose from?

[Grumbold]

Lots of info still missing about how these armies work but I have to say that the CtP system still seems better and more true to life. I don't understand why anyone thinks it complicated considering the Civ games include many other concepts that are much harder to enumerate.

If all the armies combine is hitpoints then it makes sense to have best attack unit / best defensive unit / who cares as long as it has huge hp (x2 for pentagon). Nothing mentioned about combined arms benefits.

The pentagon allows bigger armies? Really? I must ask the Russians how they have managed to keep their larger version hidden from satellite observation since WWII. I would have expected it to have improved technical capability or morale, not maximum size.

[Fiera]

You can only produce great leaders during your olden Age, or you can only get elite units during your Golden Age?

[jglidewell]

Seeking out the weak

So now will you send out your single Strong unit seeking out settlers and workers, just to get from regular to veteran to elite, and your goal of Great Leader.

I massacred 15 settlers and now they call me a Great Leader
or was that Hitler.

[Wittlich]

Standard - Vereran - Elite

We are all familiar with how a unit will become a "veteran" unit after a certain amount of combat. The new addition is the "elite" unit. Getting an Elite unit occurs after a Veteran unit wins a certain amount of combat. This Elite unit is what is needed to lead an army.

So to answer your question Fiera - IMO, No, you can get an elite unit when ever a veteran unit wins a certain combat(s). This has no tie to your Golden Age.

[Grumbold]

It does sound like a recipe for unnecessary combat though. It reminds me a little of games of Risk where you would agree with a partner to exchange ownership of a territory and leave it garrisoned with one soldier just to get your bonus card for having fought. I can see barbarian villages surrounded by a single Civ left alive to provide combat training for their new regiments.

If an elite unit spawns a leader and does not disappear in the process, then can one elite unit be used to repeatedly spawn new leaders? Can an army consisting of green units get their troops promoted to veteran and elite, and can those elite units then spawn more leaders while already in an army (Even Julius Caesar fought as a junior commander before rising to prominence)? All of these things will dictate the optimum strategies for "farming" leaders.

[Steve Clark]

Grumbold: That would likely be the strategy if war was the objective. In war-based scenarios, I don't think there would be anything wrong with that. I am equally interested in how the other modes of winning (or more specifically, the cultural/diplomatic/conquer objectives of custom scenarios) would play out strategically.

[Adm.Naismith]

Edited: forget this post of mine, Dan followed with a post that prove wrong any of mine guess

Originally posted by Grumbold
I can see barbarian villages surrounded by a single Civ left alive to provide combat training for their new regiments.

Somenone (Dan Mahaga?) already mentioned that fight with barbarians doesn't count for elite status > leader conversion. No cheat available here

If an elite unit spawns a leader and does not disappear in the process, then can one elite unit be used to repeatedly spawn new leaders?

Watching E3 movie (the first, amatorial take, IIRC) I'm almost sure to have got a glance of an (elite) unit winning and trasforming itself into a Leader/General.

If that's true, surely it seems a bit silly from a realistic Point of view, but probably is needed to balance things: if you rush for many leaders, you end without valuable, strong troops to command!

[SonofDogbreath]

I'm curious about the effect losing cities will have. If I have 4 cities and my army is elsewhere on the map, could an enemy take over one of my cities (conquest or spy) and thus eliminate my army? I figure you would keep the units but lose the leader. This would still suck since the leader was an elite unit.

Might be worth having an extra city as a buffer in this case....

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Re: Seeking out the weak

Originally posted by jglidewell
So now will you send out your single Strong unit seeking out settlers and workers, just to get from regular to veteran to elite, and your goal of Great Leader.

I massacred 15 settlers and now they call me a Great Leader
or was that Hitler.

I'm not positive on this, but I'm pretty sure that "battlefield promotions" take into account the opponent you've defeated. That is to say, I doubt you'd make elite just by picking off settlers and workers, and I assume this would be true for the appearance of great leaders as well.

Dan

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by Adm.Naismith


Somenone (Dan Mahaga?) already mentioned that fight with barbarians doesn't count for elite status > leader conversion. No cheat available here

I'm not sure whether defeating barbarians can spawn great leaders, but you can attain elite status if a veteran unit defeats barbarians (I've seen this happen when a horde of barbarians attack a single unit and the unit defeats them all)

Watching E3 movie (the first, amatorial take, IIRC) I'm almost sure to have got a glance of an (elite) unit winning and trasforming itself into a Leader/General.

If that's true, surely it seems a bit silly from a realistic Point of view, but probably is needed to balance things: if you rush for many leaders, you end without valuable, strong troops to command!

I don't *think* leaders replace any of your units, I believe they appear as a completely seperate unit...

Dan

[KrazyHorse]

Ah...

This clears up a bit of confusion for me. I thought (from the tone of some passages) that elite=great leader

[jglidewell]

Re: Re: Seeking out the weak

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS


I'm not positive on this, but I'm pretty sure that "battlefield promotions" take into account the opponent you've defeated. That is to say, I doubt you'd make elite just by picking off settlers and workers, and I assume this would be true for the appearance of great leaders as well.

Dan

Me too, I hope it isn't just a 'unit destroyed'(which includes every one) count.

[sekong]

Are there any Great Leader Limit?

How many Great Leaders can each civ have?

In civfanatics forum, somebody raised a interesting question:
if you have Military Academy, and already have number of armies up to the limit based on your city number, say, 3 armies when you have 12 cities.
Now when you get a new leader, he don't have any army to form(because of per 4 city limit). Or there can be a new army formed by him, or he can't be spawned at all, when your army reached the limit?.. It almost caused mental probelms....

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS


I'm not sure whether defeating barbarians can spawn great leaders, but you can attain elite status if a veteran unit defeats barbarians (I've seen this happen when a horde of barbarians attack a single unit and the unit defeats them all)



I don't *think* leaders replace any of your units, I believe they appear as a completely seperate unit...

Dan

[KrazyHorse]

I've seen it stated as (pre-Nationalism):

Number of stacks possible = Number of cities/4 + Number of Great Leaders. THis was official, IIRC, and not just speculation.