!!!

[korn469]

hehe Adm.Naismith you're right about that...for one thing Wernher von Braun was not only the main scientist in charge of the nazi german rocket program but he was the lead scientist on many american rocket programs and his team was the one that designed the rocket that launched the first successful US satellite...without german rocket expertise neither the US nor the USSR would have made it into space as quickly as what they did...and joseph1944 is right...if the US had of listened to von Braun we would have made it to space earlier...but they did give priority to the civilian controlled vanguard until the Soviets launched sputnik and the vanguard failed while the world was watching...then good old von Braun got us there with the military project

Skanky Burns

yes the USSR made it to space first but...

12/4/61 USSR puts Gagarin into orbit
5/5/61 US puts Shepard into sub-orbit

that is less than a month's difference and in civ terms they would have launched in the same turn...they weren't copying each other's designs...they were building upon german designs

back to civ3...maybe what this shows is that instead of having a single name for a wonder, maybe each wonder should get it's own unique name...like the hoover dam, if the persians built it i can almost guarantee they wouldn't call it the hoover damn...i dunno...maybe there shouldn't be any WONDERS in the industrial and modern ages and there should just be miniwonders, each having a name that corresponds to that civ...chinese get Sun Tzu's War academy while the US gets west point and the british get sandhurst military academy...but maybe the first player to build a miniwonder could get just a small extra bonus in addition to the normal things a mini wonder does

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by korn469
hehe Adm.Naismith you're right about that...for one thing Wernher von Braun was not only the main scientist in charge of the nazi german rocket program but he was the lead scientist on many american rocket programs and his team was the one that designed the rocket that launched the first successful US satellite...without german rocket expertise neither the US nor the USSR would have made it into space as quickly as what they did...and joseph1944 is right...if the US had of listened to von Braun we would have made it to space earlier

Thank you. And yes you are quite right, after the V-2 suceess it did speed up our reaserch. Before that Dr. Goddard research was ingnored by a lot of American.

...but they did give priority to the civilian controlled vanguard until the Soviets launched sputnik and the vanguard failed while the world was watching...then good old von Braun got us there with the military project
Skanky Burns
yes the USSR made it to space first but...
12/4/61 USSR puts Gagarin into orbit
5/5/61 US puts Shepard into orbit

that is less than a month's difference and in civ terms they would have launched in the same turn...they weren't copying each other's designs...they were building upon german designs

I was watching the Histroy channel a week or two ago and some Germans Scientis said most of the design they used came from Dr. Robert Goddard testing of his rockets. BTW the United States launched the first rocket into space. No satillite, no humans just a rocket that went high enough to qualify for space.

In the late 1940s Americans developed two important research rockets, the Viking and the Aerobee. In 1949 a small rocket called the WAC Corporal soared to what was then a record height of 250 miles (space). It was launched as a second stage atop a V-2 missile.

Ref: World Book Encyclopedia

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
First Unmanned Object sent to space: Russia


Feel free to add corrections or comments, i just got these off the top of my head

See my post above.

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by korn469

yes the USSR made it to space first but...

12/4/61 USSR puts Gagarin into orbit
5/5/61 US puts Shepard into orbit

False. According to NASA official history site the first man into orbit was Glenn, on the Mercury capsule Freedom 7 only February 20, 1962, hence Civ NEXT turn

Shepard flight was a sub-orbital launch.

Please don't mix the two concept: putting something in orbit is much more complex that sending a rocket high enough to qualify as suborbital space fly.

According to other sources, I would note that the race to the space was probably a bad thing for space colonization: the urge to run to the moon killed the very promising project of lifting bodies shuttle, many years before the current Space Shuttle.

The second scheduled step was a permanent orbital station, also demised for financing the Saturno V - Apollo - LEM.

I'm sure the ISS Alpha now assembling will finally be a step into the right direction.

[korn469]

Adm.Naismith

sorry about that...i'll edit my posts

so is there a consensus here that the race to the moon while certianly a stunning achievement, probably one of mankinds greatest feats, could have been better spent on other form of exploration (such as a permanent space station) that would have proved probably more helpful to space utilization?

just wondering what you guys thought

[RedWhiteArcher]

For everyone who have questions about moon hoax visit this site.

Adm.Naismith
Just a minor correction (I'm sure that that what you meant but I just wanted to correct)

The first man in orbit wasn't Glenn, he was the first american in orbit.

This would really be better if the wonderes could be named differently in other countries. Like at least in Moon project case:
US - Apollo project
Russia - Soyuz project
Others - just a "Moon project" (since there wasn't an analogy)

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by RedWhiteArcher
Adm.Naismith
Just a minor correction (I'm sure that that what you meant but I just wanted to correct)

The first man in orbit wasn't Glenn, he was the first american in orbit.

Correct. In that sentence I was referring to USA achievement, so I've taken that for implicit.

This would really be better if the wonderes could be named differently in other countries. Like at least in Moon project case:
US - Apollo project
Russia - Soyuz project
Others - just a "Moon project" (since there wasn't an analogy)

More detailed, but perhaps a more complexity (parametered civilopedia, more translations efforts needed) with small return.

Not to mention some young American player will probably cry "Soyuz" as a wrong name and a game bug...

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by korn469
so is there a consensus here that the race to the moon while certainly a stunning achievement, probably one of mankind greatest feats, could have been better spent on other form of exploration (such as a permanent space station) that would have proved probably more helpful to space utilization?

just wondering what you guys thought

IMHO is was Vietnam and social change that came out of the anti-war demonstration. Pres. Johnson love space but the war was consuming him to the point that just said no to another term.

Also Pres. Nixon did not give a damn about space, plus a liberal congress was elected and wanted to cancel space in favor of liberal social cause (welfare, etc.).
NASA saw the writing on the wall and scale back a ton so they would not be shut down completely. Some of you might know that congress did shut down SETI for a while and it is just now starting to operate again.
In the late fifty, we were going to build a moon base sometime in the eighty, obvious that did not materialize.
Mars was suppose to happen now, however it will be at lease 2015 or later before we go. When we do go I think there probably will be at least one Russian on the trip, plus some other countries to.
Hey I will admit that Russia has had some great Scientist and Engineer. It is to bad that their Gov. from 1920 to 1990 did not advance mankind causes for their own countryman.
The Russian did not build missile for space, it was built to bomb the US and later used for space.
At lease some of our missile were built for space and not war.

[The Mad Viking]

Personally, I think the flag photo is a fake. But I don't doubt the moon landing at all. At times, NASA used and admitted to showing simulated pictures. It would be a ***** to get a clear photo of this, and that flag is not hanging from a wire, it is fluttering. On a flagpole that looks like a fishing rod...

Read the book APOLLO. The story of the whole program, largely from an engineering point of view. Absolutely fascinating!

No question, as I think tniem said, that the Russian success was the central force pushing the Americans to the moon. Also no question that the moon landing and return was enormously more difficult than launching into orbit.

Interesting note- the team at Grumman that designed and built the Lunar Landing Module (LEM, for some reason) was composed almost entirely of Canadian engineers, recently jobless, as PM Diefenbacher had recently cancelled the Avro Aero program.

I've always been struck by the similarity between the Phantom and the Aero, but don't know if any ex-Avro guys worked on it...

Do any Americans here have the slightest idea what I'm talking about?

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by The Mad Viking

Interesting note- the team at Grumman that designed and built the Lunar Landing Module (LEM, for some reason) was composed almost entirely of Canadian engineers, recently jobless, as PM Diefenbacher had recently cancelled the Avro Aero program.

I've always been struck by the similarity between the Phantom and the Aero, but don't know if any ex-Avro guys worked on it...

Do any Americans here have the slightest idea what I'm talking about?

Yes I do. The Arrow. I still dislike your PM for canceling the program. I think I have a model of it somewhere, will have to look. That plane would have put Canada right in the advance airplane building mode, and it would have been fun to watch it fly. We may have bought some also. We did buy the British Canberra and rename it the B-57.
My Aunt (Mother Sister) bought me 4 model in 1952/3?, I now have over 3,000 Airplanes, Tanks, Ships, Space, and Cars.
On the Phantom. It was built by McDonnell-Douglas and in the days it was built our company did not share information that well. However Engineer did move from Company to Company. Also the Phantom was a low wing aircraft and the Arrow was a crank high wing aircraft. Now the F-8 had almost the same wing.

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by The Mad Viking
Personally, I think the flag photo is a fake. But I don't doubt the moon landing at all. At times, NASA used and admitted to showing simulated pictures. It would be a ***** to get a clear photo of this, and that flag is not hanging from a wire, it is fluttering. On a flagpole that looks like a fishing rod...

Good old INERTIA anyone?
The flag had an horizontal support to keep it "open". Planting down the flag the movement transmitted to the textile has been keept for a while; because there was no atmosphere to slow it down, only the (low) gravity acted as a force for movement reduction.

Meantime the photo has been taken, with a "earth realistic" look.

Mistery solved, Mr Watson.

[joseph1944]

About 25 min ago (5:25PM pacific) CNN played a tape of Pres. Kennedy talking to a NASA Leader. He said I want to land on the Moon or why are we spending all this money if we do not land. Now here is the big new.

: I do not care about Space. I want to beat the Russian.

All of this time I thought he supported Space. Oh well.
NASA Leader only wanted to fly over the moon without landing.
I think Kennedy landing show everyone you have to land if you want really explored. Out fly over of Mars only show so much, but after landing there we have leaned so much more.
Space the final frontier, were no man has gone before, planet Earth is coming your way.

[Skanky Burns]

Just a quick note:

LEM stands for Lunar Excursion Module

[C. Gerhardt]

Why does most of Europe hate the US? I dont understand it.

Three words: George W. Bush
This loony should be :banned:

B.t.w. he could also be put in the Guinness Book of Records!!!
He destroyed in 8 weeks what Billy-boy worked hard for during his 8 years!!!

I rest my case.

[BlackStone]

Col Bigspear


Talking of conspiracy theories i was told the other day of a theory that actually the moon was a giant spaceship. The person who told me was very excited and said that the TV programme had gone into some detail about craters and the like. I personally thought he was talking B**l**ks, afterall what self respecting alien would make a space ship out of cream cheese.