!!!

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by campmajor!
The first man on the moon marked an impressive event. Even more so than the first man in space.

True. And not-so true.

As a sideline >
In my city, Warsaw, there is a Military History Museum exhibiting a spent polish astronaut's (Hermaszewski) space capsule.

Just looking at it, you cannot but wonder - "and they really sent men into space in THAT?!?"

Looks like it's made of cardboard and wire by a DIY freak. I mean, when I was a kid I built better ones in my back-yard. Anybody SURVIVING a trip to space in such a contraption - this is a wonder.

[Mannamagnus]

???

Why not mention a topic?

[datakodin]

Originally posted by Scrooge
Just looking at it, you cannot but wonder - "and they really sent men into space in THAT?!?"

No. Your spacemen - pierwszy polak w kosmosie Miroslaw Hermaszewski - was returning to Earth in that space capsule.

When he was starting, his space ship was a little bit bigger.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by korn469
actually if they were going to put in any soviet wonders, i think the Berlin Wall would actually be a good one...it would make all of your cities immune to being taken over by culture

and give you -5 unhappiness, with a governemnt overthrow chances of 10% per turn.

[Ralf]

Originally posted by Dark Scorpion
Ralf I agree that gameplay is more important than history, but if Civ wish to be game which include historical events, it should be TRUE history!

"TRUE" history, with minutely reproduced historic events can (and should) only be portrayed in advanced handmade tailor-cut Civ-3 scenarios. This is the very purpose with scenarios, in the first place.

Isnt that obvious? Why is it so hard to understand this?

It cant be portrayed in the main game. The main game is, from start to finish, much more about an alternative made-up earth-like history - draped in some autenthic historic clothes & historic backdrop-props, yes. But nothing more then that.

And its GREAT that its divided like that (main-game vs scenario-game), because it leaves the field totally open to construct any type of historic (or future) scenarios in much more rich & ample ways, compared with if the developers where forced to having it all squeezed into the main game.

[Col Bigspear]

This should probably go in off topic but im in here now and im posting anyway!.
I watched a programme about an interesting conspiracy about the Apollo Programme. It basically suggested that the moon landings were faked to show the Soviets that America could out-do them in everything. It showed Pictures of the Astronauts on the moon. There was a lack of stars in the sky, possibly some thing to do with the moons atmosphere?, strange shadows that should not have been there, those crosses like in a telescopic gun sight on the pictures, well one went BEHIND a lunar rover? suggesting that the photo was a mock-up and finally my favourite a letter C on a Moon Rock? a stage prop maybe? A picture of Buzz or Neil, well one was taking a picture of the other and in the Visor of the Astronaut you could see the other person in the reflection, but you could see the top of his head?. It look as if it was a different picture alltogether edited on.
I don't usually listen to conspiracies, exept the JFK assassination, but this one made me laugh. It really is something Americans would do .

Oh yes, America you were a bigger threat to the world than communism ever was. In the 60's you had Missle bases in Turkey and Europe, on the soviet's doorstep. But when they try to even things out e.g Cuban Missle Crisis, you nearly start a War.
This goes to prove my point
31/1/58 US launched their first satellite
19/8/60 US launched discovery 14 the first operational SPY satellite
The soviets just wanted to CHILL 'n' get along.

NOTE, DO NOT TAKE THIS POST that SERIOUSLY
DO NOT OPERATE HEAVY MACHINERY AFTER READING IT
IF YOU ATTEMPT TO CONTACT MI5 IN AN ATTEMPT TO SHUT ME UP, BE SURE TO ASK NICELY AND TO SAY PLEASE

Thx for you time, it sort of had something to do with the Thread did'nt it.

If you are going to reply to this please respond to the conspiracy bit. The U.S.A bashing was just abit of fun for us Europeans

[Timeline]

Yeah Col Bigspear you have a good point. Like, think about the American flag, for example. Why does it look like it’s rippling in the wind when there’s no atmosphere on the moon to make the flag move?

It really is something Americans would do.

Well, as I myself am an American, that's not usually the way I view my fellow countrymen ..... but in this case you, I am afraid, could be right.

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by Timeline
Yeah Col Bigspear you have a good point. Like, think about the American flag, for example. Why does it look like its rippling in the wind when theres no atmosphere on the moon to make the flag move?

Well gentleman I sat on my living room floor in front of my TV and watched the whole show from start to finnish. If it was a fake then the US Gov and Hollywood outdid themselves in this little movie. I was 25 year old.
Hey Nixon gave us the day off so we could watch and paid us for it w/o using annual leave.

[Timeline]

Yes, my father sat on his floor and watched the whole thing too. It would have taken alot of work to put together such a film, because although there are some things that look fake, there are others that just make you know, and feel inside that this was *real*. Something about it that just isn't in Hollywood movies. I can’t put my finger on it, but maybe it's the dialog between the astronauts.

I remember seeing one of the apollo aeronauts on TV (don't remember which one) and he said the terrain on the moon made it hard to get the flag to stay in the ground because the surface was like powder. He said as they lifted off from the moon, he could see the flag get knocked over by the thrust form the lunar module.

Oh well, we may never know what really happened. If it was a hoax, then by the time science develops a telescope that’s powerful enough to see if the lunar rover (and other equipment that would have been left behind) is really there, people will just say NASA has had plenty of time to plant the evidence. Same if a private company builds an unmanned satellite capable of traveling to the moon. We will never know. But I *do* know that it will go down in history that the Americans were the first to land on the moon and that they did so in 1969.

P.S. Here are the pictures they don't want you to see.

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by Timeline

P.S. Here are the pictures they don't want you to see.

It's E.T. Hey ET how are you doing?
I would love to go to Area 51 plus that little place 16 miles west of the base.

[Kenobi]

I know it's OT, but I can't resist posting...

Sheesh. I just knew this lunar landing discussion was going to degenerate into an investigation of the "hoax theory". The old fluttering flag "problem" is explained by the use of wire to keep the flag flying in a "realistic" way.

If you think the conspiracy's true, apply the old deputy director of the CIA's rule: "If you want the world to know something, tell three Americans." This supposed hoax would have required thousand of americans to be actively involved in the biggest conspiracy that the world has ever known and say nothing, write no memoirs, take no guest star roles on Ricki. The suggestion is laughable.

As to the original question, I agree with the argument that the fundamental technology to achieve the lunar landing was available well before it took place, and THE RUSSIANS WERE FIRST IN SPACE. Just keep saying the following: the first man in space was Russian, the first man in space was Russian...

BTW, it's not American bashing to admire the Russians for achieving something great. Russia was a great power back when America still belonged to the (original) Americans.

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by Timeline

then by the time science develops a telescope that powerful enough to see if the lunar rover (and other equipment that would have been left behind) is really there, people will just say NASA has had plenty of time to plant the evidence.

Hey you still young. Go for the job of being an operator on the Hubble. Then one day when everyone is off, you come in and point the big one at the moon when the sun will shining on the landing area and see if you can pick up a reflection from some of our equipment left on the moon. At least you will know, and at that point would you really care if someone did not believed you?

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by Kenobi
BTW, it's not American bashing to admire the Russians for achieving something great. Russia was a great power back when America still belonged to the (original) Americans.

Not it is to mention how great it has been the German scientist contribution for the run to the space.

Just in case someone don't already know, first missiles in USA, USSR and France (the latter finally converged on the European Space Agency) took really a lot from German experience with V-2 (A4) missiles. First succesful rocket engine launched were often working copies of original german (succesfully proved during war), or at least a copy of most succesful part of them.

Not that others country wasn't researching in that field, but none can negate the bare result of thousand of V-2 built and launched (different extimate: 6,500 built, 3,300 launched) and more than 500 succesfully hit London and some more hit the port of Antwerp! No other country was able to do anything like that during that years. I've found an interesting site about V-2, linked here just in case.

[Skanky Burns]

Heres each important step in space travel as i see it...

First sucessful rocket: Germany
First Unmanned Object sent to space: America
First Animal sent to space: Russia
First Man in space: Russia
First Woman in space: Russia
First sattelite in space: Russia
First to orbit the moon: America
First to land on moon: America

Feel free to add corrections or comments, i just got these off the top of my head

Edit: Updated list due to new info

[BigRich]

Originally posted by joseph1944

Hey you still young. Go for the job of being an operator on the Hubble. Then one day when everyone is off, you come in and point the big one at the moon when the sun will shining on the landing area and see if you can pick up a reflection from some of our equipment left on the moon. At least you will know, and at that point would you really care if someone did not believed you?

Apparently one of the first two experiments set up on the moon was a set of prisms to act as a laser reflector, to help measure the exact Earth - Moon distance. Don't know if that ever worked but it would be pretty convincing evidence against the conspiracy theory right? Don't know what the chances of a naturally occuring rock formation doing the same job are but I thing I'd prefer to assume that Apollo wasn't faked
Excellent book on the subject "A man on the moon - the voyages of the Apollo astronauts" by Andrew L. Chaikin. I'm reading it at the moment, it definitely brings home how damn impressive the whole venture was. And if he's tooting the ole American horn, well just for once its throughly justified IMHO!

Rich.