My God!!!!!!!!!

[Falconius]

The World Book Encyclopedia lists Turkey as a European nation.

Joseph 1944, you even admit that Turkey has territory in Europe, which it does. What other criteria do you need to declare it European? True, MOST of Turkey is in Asia (the part formerly known as Asia Minor, in ancient times), but the same can be said of Russia. And as Andreiguy will tell you, Russia is most definitely European.

[Colonâ„¢]

Joseph,
"If you will a second/mini UN? Only this has some teethe"

Depends on how you view the UN, but I wouldn't consider both to be similar because the UN doesn't legislate.
The EU is really a strange beast actually, it isn't a federal country like US yet it's more advanced than most confederations like CIS or the British Commonwealth.

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by joseph1944

The author of my Atlas is William R. Mead Professor Emeritus of Geography, University College London, England. Why don't you write him and tell him he made a big mistake about Turkey location.

Talk to him.

[Vrank Prins]

Originally posted by joseph1944
A very small piece of Turkey laid in Europe, so the Union said OK let's let them in. It's no big deal.

It is a big deal, and the eventual joining of Turkey in the EU is giving quite some stuff for discussion because of the political status quo in Turkey. That's why Turkey has not been given a promise for a membership, they have been stipulated conditions. Turkey is the only Asian country being a member of NATO. Keeping them out of the "islamic"sphere is one of the reasons why Turkey could join the EU. That should appeal to you americans aswell.

And the EU, dear CIA-Operative (you s.o.b.), is not something fricken. maybe you are just chicken. It has given us europeans peace and prosperity for over the last half of a century. It's better to see our governmentleaders on the frontpages smiling together, then to read about war.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Vrank Prins
It's better to see our governmentleaders on the frontpages smiling together, then to read about war.

You can say that again

[Martinus]

Originally posted by CIA_Operative
Do you know what the EU stands for????

You have to be apart of Europe to even apply to the EU so how can you negate the fact that Turkey wants to join the EU and say that they are not part of Europe.

Do you know what NATO stands for? North Atlantic Treaty Organisation.

Well, I go to the seaside here in Poland every year. I did not know it was the freaking Atlantic Ocean!

[Vrank Prins]

Originally posted by Martinus
I did not know it was the freaking Atlantic Ocean!

That's what the italians think too when they look at the mediterranian sea

[CIA_Operative]

To Vrank Prins I believe you misunderstood me in saying fricken EU, I agree whole heartedlee that the EU has brought much prosparity to Europe, heck I had to simulate it for school. I just used that adjective to further describe it, its as much as saying the brown car. I have no hate for the EU, I personally think it should become more of a federalized state to have more power.

[Vrank Prins]

CIA-operative, okay , no offense taken. I know I can react pretty strong when it comes to that subject, Sorry

[Adm.Naismith]

quote:

Originally posted by Martinus
I did not know it was the freaking Atlantic Ocean!

Originally posted by Vrank Prins
That's what the italians think too when they look at the mediterranian sea

EhEh

You know, we in Italy weren't considered a main war theater in case cold war become hot.

Germany did, as an easy door to attack all Central Europe, then North Europe and west to France and Spain/Portugal.

The North Atlantic was the main cargo connection between USA and Great Britain / Europe

As WWI and WWII submarines battle teached, USA can lost every link to European nation, GB included, if they lost the North Atlantic control. Most of Nato effort was centered around that axis, hence the name.

Adding that we spent half of the WWII on the enemy front, after the war USA mostly considered us an Ally just to keep at bay the Comunist Yugoslavia and to have a firm control over Mediterrain area (also not far from North Africa and Middle East)

Only during last years, while the military pressure almost vanished in Central europe, Italy advanced in NATO consideration, but so did the concept of European Union coordinated Defense. May be we'll have a different scenario in about 10 to 20 years from now...

[Martinus]

I have an impression I have been misunderstood.

I was just trying to say the name of an organisation is not 100% relevant to its membership. So a non-European but close-to-Europe country (like Turkey) may join EU, and a non-Atlantic but close-to-Atlantic country (like Poland or Italy) may join NATO.

So the argument that Turkey is (geographically speaking) an European country BECAUSE it applied to EU is irrelevant.

[kolpo]

and can you see the power of france coming to bear! imagine production+comercial, it can just rape europe

In all previous civ like games where the builders AI always beaten down by the conquer AI. SO I think that actually the Romans(production+industrious is good combo for the typical AI warmonger startegy). I think that even with culture the warmonger AI will still win: in all civ like games is the conquer AI better then the builder AI so it is likely that a builder AI is harder to make and will because of that be always weaker + a temple can't stop a big military invasion(yes there will be some riots at first but don't forget taht you can use your units to make them content in some goverments).

My prediction: the warmonger AI will quite always beat the builder AI, so you will often end up with the same civs.

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by Martinus
I was just trying to say the name of an organisation is not 100% relevant to its membership. So a non-European but close-to-Europe country (like Turkey) may join EU, and a non-Atlantic but close-to-Atlantic country (like Poland or Italy) may join NATO.

And how did Israel get into the Eurovision Song Contest? That really scared me.

[kolpo]

And how did Israel get into the Eurovision Song Contest? That really scared me.

The Brits had an important role in the creation of israel after WWII and most inhabitants of Israel are imigrants from Europe(after WWII wanted they there own country so they will be save if something like WWII happens again in Europe) I think that that is the reason why they are included.

[Vrank Prins]

Originally posted by J Bytheway
And how did Israel get into the Eurovision Song Contest? That really scared me.

Now that you mention it, a bit of an extrapolation.
I do think it's possible that we will see that,, when "things" really have quiet down and been peacefully settled between Israël and Palestina,, in about 20 years Israel may request a membership for the EU and that they will be granted one. Israel, a bit like Turkey, is a fascinating mixture of the east and the west. Probably they consider themselves to be more western/european than eastern/asian. Everyone always relates more easier with the "winning" side than with the "loosing". But I don't think that's to be said of Israël , they have proven to be able to stand firmly on their own feet. It would be nice though to see them dancing on these same feet, with their neighbours (like we do in the EU) instead of kicking them around.